T14 - PAC has been disqualified

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Phil Lamat
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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by Phil Lamat » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:17 pm

Note that after zeroing these scores, we can see he wasn't "so good" in 2012, when he submitted 1116530 on Galaga and 773860 on Twincobr ...

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by QRS » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:44 pm

Well, that is very sad indeed :(
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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by Frankie » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:16 pm

I did wonder about that New Rally X score when I saw it :(
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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by empardopo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Phil Lamat wrote:Note that after zeroing these scores, we can see he wasn't "so good" in 2012, when he submitted 1116530 on Galaga and 773860 on Twincobr ...
Phil honestly, I think this comment is not fair. It has been over three years and I think in that period a player can improve.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by BBH » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:12 pm

empardopo wrote:
Phil Lamat wrote:Note that after zeroing these scores, we can see he wasn't "so good" in 2012, when he submitted 1116530 on Galaga and 773860 on Twincobr ...
Phil honestly, I think this comment is not fair. It has been over three years and I think in that period a player can improve.
Of course, a player can always improve over a span of three years if they're really dedicated to the game. Nobody's going to argue with that. But judging by his gameplay decisions during Twin Cobra, he clearly did not spend the last three years playing it and developing any sort of strategies for it.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by QAOP Spaceman » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:09 pm

franco.benedetti wrote: and it appears some other sites would happily host our hero so he can show his skill freely
I can assure you, Franco, that there's no hero worship going on here :)

I only posted after the laughable 'Please, help me , MARP it is lying about me' thread appeared at TG. I quote: "I want to leave MARP because they are liars and wanted to join Twin Galaxies".

Well, the Marp editors are obviously a bunch of rotten liars ... :roll:

But, lo and behold, the TG folks also seem to believe these rotten liars at Marp! ¡Que putada!

If you were being falsely accused of cheating by the 'liars' at Marp, and disbelieved by the 'liar'-sympathisers at TG, surely RU would be another option to do a quick score on Twin Cobra or Pengo to show you can do it?

Better yet, one of these 'liars' at Marp has offered you 500 smackers to get a lower score than you've claimed. You'd go for that, wouldn't you?

But since the tactic of crying like a little spoiled baby to TG has backfired, we've had total and complete silence.

Which speaks volumes.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by GHEMANT » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:09 am

The case is closed.

I admit my sadness. Pac was a strong player (with a willingness to understand the advanced strategies in platform, action and other type of games), but he was looking for the absolute glory. Admit his guilt would allow him to continue in Marp....

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by dan » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:04 am

He will probably not admit guilt.
I think the very disappointing.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by giro-X » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:52 pm

The positive note about this situation is to see that editors are alive and working together to a solution. I mean, except maybe three? four? of you, the rest is always so silent :P
No other positive note.
I'd like to say a lot of stuff but it would be a repetition of things said already. There is no need to explain much else. Seriously. If you don't understand something about this "topic", it means that you haven't read carefully.
Keep up the good work, because I guess there's still lot of it to go for; you have our* support.
*(mine and I guess of tons of other players & silent watchers of all sorts)

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by INNUENDO » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:44 pm

http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/d/5/7/pac ... wolf99.zip

Is this legal or not? This can be verified, PLEASE?
Long life to good games

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by GJTMarper » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:05 am

Hang on now, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here - not all of PAC's scores have been found to be illegit as of right now. Besides, Innuendo has something to gain by that particular score being disqualified:
slyspy Leaderboard:
1st - PAC with 1,140,000 points
2nd - Innuendo with 1,098,400 points
There's also this from the 2012 score confirmation log (bolded for emphasis):
Wed Aug 1 10:08:50 2012 : INNUENDO (rsm) confirmed the slyspy score of 1140000 by PAC (pacman)
Wed Aug 1 10:51:00 2012 : mahlemiut (br) confirmed the slyspy score of 1140000 by PAC (pacman)
I await Innuendo's and/or mahlemiut's comments on this.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by INNUENDO » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:28 am

Welcome to MARP. I hope you´ll enjoy it.

I´ll answer you, no problem.

I was playing this game in 2012 in a tournament called CAMPEONATO RETROVICIO 2012. Pac did the score of 1.140.000 pts. I´ve watched his inp and confirmed.

I just want to ask about the editors if there´s something wrong or is this a legitmit score. Only this. If I beat his score is another story.
Long life to good games

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by GHEMANT » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:31 am

Pac's score 1,140,000 = autofire used. Autofire isn't use in all replay but only in some situations / Boss. So was difficult find without a specific autofire software. This score is not legit for Marp's rules.

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by Zhorik » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:55 am

GHEMANT is correct. PAC uses autofire in the Sly Spy replay INNUENDO asked us to take a look at: http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/d/5/7/pac ... wolf99.zip

I examined the replay last night and confirmed the autofire usage. It is not continuous throughout the replay, but it is very obvious and blatant in a few places. I've reported my findings to the Editors and the score will be DQed for violation of MARP rule 2(b): "Autofire is not permitted."

-George

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Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified

Post by BBH » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:08 pm

You don't even need any external tools to see his autofire use in that Sly Spy recording. Just play the recording back with "-iv 1" to see his inputs. His button press rate varies throughout the beginning of the recording, as well it should and all seems normal there. But when he reaches the boss shark at ~31000 frames, his firing rate completely changes and becomes too consistent. It becomes a consistent 3 frames on, 3 frames off. Obviously this is the most important part for score because every hit registered on the shark is a bonus 10000 so obviously it would make sense to use autofire here. He does it again when he assembles the golden gun at ~49100 frames in, and once more at ~71700 frames in when he has to destroy the final force field. Yes, INNUENDO confirmed this score but I don't fault him for not catching it - confirmers are only confirming that the score plays back to the advertised score.

At least PAC wasn't dumb enough to use autofire in his entire recording, like saulonpb has kept doing in his 1943 recordings and elsewhere. PAC was smart enough not to keep it on the entire time, so as to make it more difficult to notice. And hey, it went under the radar for several years, so he'd gotten away with it for a while.

....on the other hand, back in 2010 it looks like he kept autofire on the entire time for his Chiki Chiki Boys replay during K8 (yes, during a tournament no less).
http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/9/d/5/pac ... olf106.zip

Constant 3 frame inputs on button 1 the entire time. It's actually pretty embarassing that this wasn't caught for so long. Just look at the consistency of those inputs with -iv 1 and tell me he's not using autofire.

I realize of course that there are still members in the Spanish MAME community that don't want to believe PAC cheated, that think our findings on his recent recordings are bogus because we haven't released the full details (which we haven't done because we believe it to be very dangerous knowledge if it was to become widespread at this time). But when you consider this history of trying to sneak recordings by with autofire... is it really so much of a stretch to believe he would try to get away with breaking the rules in other ways too? He's not the clean, honest player that he may seem to some of you. Yes, he does have legitimate skills but his desire to be #1 on certain games led to him playing in illegitimate ways. If he's really innocent of these wrongdoings, why has he not responded in any way to these accusations? He's gone silent on this thread, and the thread on TG in which he accused us of being liars. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

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