samsho4

Discussion of playback questions / problems. Any recording where people have playback problems should appear here.

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Weehawk
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samsho4

Post by Weehawk » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:06 am

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... t=^samsho4

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/5/2/e/va ... mame64.zip

Desyncs and loses to Shizumaru.

Vansibel:

1) Read the Special Rules

2) Get a current version of MAME

3) Try again.
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Post by Buttermaker » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:26 am

Plays back correctly with the advertised version.

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Post by Chad » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:28 pm

I and bbh can't play this back either, so in theory it could be zeroed (until someone else besides BM can play it back). BM, do you think this could be the reoccurance of the 63 thing?
-skito

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Post by Vansibel » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:06 pm

1.
Recorded with mame32k 0.64 (use "playback mame input" for replay)
2.http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UT ... 0.64&meta=

3.http://www.angelfire.com/games4/shadowb ... 3-ka09.exe

The replay was recorded with a version of mame that use kaillera to allow online gaming. And yes I carefully read and understood the rule so I expected my score to be edited. Consider it as a parody of the principle itself of playing fighting games that way. I don't really care if it's removed, I did it entirely out of sole boredom. But being doubted is certainly something rather unpleasant.


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Post by Chad » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:42 pm

you should expect doubt being a newbie, but i you were NOT doubted disrespectfully. The post is here to make sure as many others can playback your recording as possible. using kaillera might affect inps adversly although in this case it's proly some other setting (or another mame playback bug). just have to document this stuff for future reference. And as for the score very admirable to play at most difficutly but gotta have all recordings scored the same or then points would be worthless (i.e. who's line is it anyway?) welcome to marp!
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Post by LN2 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:05 am

Chad wrote:And as for the score very admirable to play at most difficutly but gotta have all recordings scored the same or then points would be worthless (i.e. who's line is it anyway?) welcome to marp!
Since when?

I thought MARP allowed a player to use harder difficulty settings versus the MARP settings which for most games is the MAME default.

case in point...TGTS....most games TGTS are harder settings than the MAME default.

Also some DECA's have used higher than normal settings for certain games and some of those are submitted to MARP.

It doesn't make their score worthless at all..but more admirable for scoring that much playing at a harder difficulty than the others. It's a handicap against themselves...not an advantage.

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Post by mahlemiut » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:17 am

Rick, you just missed the point by a long way - there is no issue with a higher difficulty being used. The issue is with changing settings so that 5 wins are needed per battle, rather than the default 2. This has quite an effect on the score with the scoring method used.
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Post by Weehawk » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:26 am

Vansibel wrote:being doubted is certainly something rather unpleasant.
The only thing I doubted was your ability to read the rules.

Now that I know you understood the rules full well and just disregarded them, I find that something rather unpleasant.

As for questioning playbackability, most of us could provide numerous links to threads where people had trouble with our recordings. It goes with the territory when submitting inps to MARP.

Welcome anyway, I hope that you will show more regard for the rules in future.
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Post by LN2 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:51 am

mahlemiut wrote:Rick, you just missed the point by a long way - there is no issue with a higher difficulty being used. The issue is with changing settings so that 5 wins are needed per battle, rather than the default 2. This has quite an effect on the score with the scoring method used.
No, I didn't miss any point. I misread it though as anyone could do.

If Chad's statement was specific to this game, then fine. I know there are cases where playing at a higher difficulty allow the opportunity to score more each stage/level.

I read Chad's statement as a blanket statement for all games at MARP...like a MARP policy statement. That's not MARP's policy at all.

MARP needs to set a special rule for games where a harder difficulty would NOT be allowed to be used. Without a special rule, MARP's general rule of allowing harder difficulty settings would apply.

I see samsho4 has special rules, but just as a scoring determination...with no notice of what difficulty setting must be used....so MAME default or harder would apply based on the current rules for this game.

BTW, how would MARP handle it if TG's settings for this game were a higher difficulty?

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Post by Buttermaker » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:56 am

LN2 wrote:No, I didn't miss any point.
Yes, you did and you're still missing it.

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Post by LN2 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:25 pm

Buttermaker wrote: Yes, you did and you're still missing it.
No I'm not. For this game, using a higher difficulty setting results in having more fights you can win so given the special scoring rules you can actually get a higher score at the harder difficulty.

However, disallowing a harder difficulty doesn't apply to ALL games at MARP which is how I read Chad's above comment. The general MARP policy is that a harder difficulty beyond the MAME default settings is ALLOWED for games.

If it's not allowed for this game, fine...but add that to the SPECIAL RULES since it's an exception to the general MARP rules.

Without that special rule added the higher difficulty IS allowed....that's MY point.

Add to the special rules for this game that MAME default settings must be used...and perhaps specify the actual settings instead in case the default settings change in a later version of MAME....although that change was more likely to occur in older versions.

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Post by Buttermaker » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:45 pm

LN2 wrote:No I'm not.
Yes, you are.
For this game, using a higher difficulty setting results in having more fights you can win
No, it doesn't.
so given the special scoring rules you can actually get a higher score at the harder difficulty.
No, you can't.
However, disallowing a harder difficulty doesn't apply to ALL games at MARP
And it doesn't apply to this game either.
The general MARP policy is that a harder difficulty beyond the MAME default settings is ALLOWED for games.
And samsho4 is among those.
If it's not allowed for this game, fine
It is allowed.
Without that special rule added the higher difficulty IS allowed
It will always be allowed.
....that's MY point.
But since you're missing the point your point is pointless.
Add to the special rules for this game that MAME default settings must be used
They must not be used.

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Post by mahlemiut » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:44 pm

Rick, look at the attached screenshot - CPU Match is the setting that we are talking about, NOT difficulty. Higher difficulty is allowed, than the default that the game set (MAME doesn't set the defaults in this case).

Setting it to 5:5 means that the player requires 5 wins to progress, or 5 losses for game over. The default is 2:2.
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Post by sikraiken » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:26 pm

uh, wow, seriously. even I got what he did when I had just looked at the score. :D

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Post by LN2 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:43 pm

ok Barry...but remember my reply was to a quote from Chad.

I was only replying to Chad's comment cuz he was giving a few general statements to a MARP newbie for using specific mames etc....so it was easy to read what Chad stated as I did.

Chad didn't refer to samsho4 at all...so I read his reply to the newbie as being general guidelines and tips for the newbie.

Please read what I quoted from Chad again. My reply was only to that...NOT this specific samsho4 recording.

Notice I have no mention of the game at all in my reply.

Then I allowed you all to further confuse me by making it samsho4 related....so I then assumed(incorrectly of course) that the difficulty thing mentioned by Chad was the case for this replay and this game.

If what you show in your screenshot isn't allowed, then add it to the special rules for the game of whatever settings should be used....even if only for clarification.

For many games "harder" settings doesn't necessarily mean harder difficulty setting. It could easily just be the #start men you get or how often you earn extra men or in a game like pac-man etc. setting to "hard" difficulty doesn't make the game harder at all. It results in a different blue time scheme for the early boards. It doesn't change how the monsters behave at all etc. it just makes it so you end up with a lesser score since you can't eat as many monsters on the early boards.

However, starting with less men and earning extra men less often is a harder setting. You could equally state that 5 fights to advance versus 3 or 2 is a harder setting as well....not a harder difficulty, but a harder setting.

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