About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Discussion of playback questions / problems. Any recording where people have playback problems should appear here.

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MJS
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About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Post by MJS » Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:56 pm

Sorry to always question the rules, but I want to understand (and hopefully improve) them!
Feel free to ignore me if you think I am a complainer (which I can be sometimes hehe).

I was going to ask how many people that can't playback are required to zero a recording and how it is done when someone can playback, but there is something more important I want to know first:

Why are recordings zeroed because of playbackability problems?

Shouldn't recordings be zeroed only when they break the rules? (which obviously can't be told if it doesn't playback).

Of course if someone makes up a score like 9,999,999 and uploads it will be in the first place, but shouldn't we solve this by giving confirmed recordings precedence over unconfirmed ones instead of zeroing the score?

And same as it is now (AFAIK), a recording should be confirmed when a confirmer can play it back. This applies for all cases except when the confirmer that can play it back is the same person as the player.

...another one of my regular rants, I know! (sorry)

agree/disagree/don't care? :)

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Re: About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Post by QRS » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:25 pm

MJS wrote: Why are recordings zeroed because of playbackability problems?

Shouldn't recordings be zeroed only when they break the rules? (which obviously can't be told if it doesn't playback).

Simple answer:MARP is a replay site and when a recording doesn't playback ok, it doesn't belong here. Or we might as well accept screenshots ;)
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Re: About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Post by MJS » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:57 pm

QRS wrote:Simple answer:MARP is a replay site and when a recording doesn't playback ok, it doesn't belong here.
Ok, but they are not deleted...

The problem here is that we can't tell for sure when a recording doesn't playback.
We can tell when the recording playbacks (because of the advertised score) but not the opposite.

We have just came up with one reason not to zero recordings because of playbackability problems (as I am suggesting).

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Re: About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Post by Weehawk » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:12 pm

MJS wrote:The problem here is that we can't tell for sure when a recording doesn't playback.
Yes, we can.
MJS wrote:We have just came up with one reason not to zero recordings because of playbackability problems
No, we haven't.
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Re: About "zeroing" (not Zero Wing!)

Post by MJS » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:27 pm

Weehawk wrote:Yes, we can.
:o are you sure?

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Post by Patwos » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:37 pm

A zero score indicates that it can't be played back.

Also, the person who zeros the score normally puts a comment to that effect in the description as well as what the claimed score was prior to it being zeroed.

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Post by Weehawk » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:22 pm

Patwos wrote:A zero score indicates that it can't be played back.

Also, the person who zeros the score normally puts a comment to that effect in the description as well as what the claimed score was prior to it being zeroed.
And, it should be noted, they are still available for download, they're just at the bottom of the list.

Zeroing is not the same as deleting.

And of course, even deleted files are still in storage, there's just no link to them.
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Post by Chad » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:34 pm

It's not in a high traffic area but the playbackability rule is in a sticky on this forum.
Unwriten Marp Playback Rule Written:

If no more than one person besides the uploader can get the recording to playback and three other people can't get the recording to playback (after trying suggested settings) the recording will be zereod at marp or score adjusted to the place where the recording goes out of sync; after all it's a mame Action Replay page not a high score listing page. If two people including the author say they can play the recording back, then any recording can be instated to the correct score after zeroing. The moral of the story "Test your recordings before uploading."
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Post by MJS » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:18 pm

Well, I still think recordings shouldn't be zeroed because of playbackability problems. After all that's what the confirmation mark is there for, isn't it? (to indicate nobody could play it back yet) ...so why zero it?

But it's ok, let's leave it as it is now (as there seems to be little interest in changing things :? )
Still, there is something else I don't get:

According to the text posted by Chad, a recording will be zeroed when 3 people can't playback. This is like this despite a 4th person can playback (if I understood well).

So a recording which cannot be played back (zeroed) actually can be played back by some (?) 8O

Please tell me I am misunderstanding something!

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Post by The TJT » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:36 pm

Already confirmed recordings are safe, imo.
MJS wrote:Please tell me I am misunderstanding something!
Pleased to help you.
You are misunderstanding something! :wink:

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Post by QRS » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:57 pm

MJS wrote:Well, I still think recordings shouldn't be zeroed because of playbackability problems. After all that's what the confirmation mark is there for, isn't it? (to indicate nobody could play it back yet) ...so why zero it?
Confirmation is for seeing that the recording playback to the advertised score and that no illegal leeching (or sometimes signs of cheating that can be detected by only looking at the recording) A confirmed score can of course be deleted and is not "safe" from landing in the trashcan if something strange has happened :) Just look at it as a first step in the process of beeing an accepted score.
MJS wrote: But it's ok, let's leave it as it is now (as there seems to be little interest in changing things :? )
I'm all into changing things if they have a point and are meaningful to the MARP community. I can't find anything usefull in your suggestion though. Sorry.
MJS wrote: So a recording which cannot be played back (zeroed) actually can be played back by some (?) 8O
Sometimes, yes, but look at it this way:Do you really want to have a site with recordings that playback as they should maybe 1/5 of the time you try them? "Hey, lets download 10 recording and see if maybe two of them works!" Playback problems needs to be dealt with and the best way is to just delete the scores if they are not easy to playback.
MJS wrote: Please tell me I am misunderstanding something!
Missunderstanding or not, feel free to suggest anything you like. We are all in for different ways of looking at the rules etc.

Cheers!
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Post by The TJT » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:05 pm

MJS wrote:
According to the text posted by Chad, a recording will be zeroed when 3 people can't playback. This is like this despite a 4th person can playback (if I understood well).
You are right though. If normally you need 3 to zero. Then if someone CAN playback...then you should need 4 to zero. (-3 -1 +1=-3)
(you should also assume that recorder can playback himself)

And already cofirmed scores should be left alone...Old recordings:
1. who knows how many have been able to playback them(can't get confirmed twice)
2. Player in question might have dropped in playing form, so not easy to make new one similarly good recording.
3. In theory, older a recording gets, harder it's to playback.
as there seems to be little interest in changing things :?
You can allways pm me, and I'll start a conversation. Or make a new topic at regulation forum, and we will have a voting on that after discussion.

Thanks,
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Post by Chad » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:29 pm

MJS wrote:According to the text posted by Chad, a recording will be zeroed when 3 people can't playback. This is like this despite a 4th person can playback (if I understood well).

So a recording which cannot be played back (zeroed) actually can be played back by some (?) 8O

Please tell me I am misunderstanding something!
you are right, actually this can happen if only ONE person can play it back. This is just to avoid a recording that is only going to playback for 25% of the people (or times). If three people can't play something back (usually one of them has tried several ways to get it to work (the one person may have just gotten lucky.)) But if two people can play it back, at least you can rule out luck, mostly, and thus it can be reinstated.

This rule is certainly open for changing, but at least you know the reason why it's in place now.
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Post by MJS » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:34 pm

QRS wrote:I'm all into changing things if they have a point and are meaningful to the MARP community. I can't find anything usefull in your suggestion though. Sorry.
Hehe, fine! :oops:
QRS wrote:Missunderstanding or not, feel free to suggest anything you like. We are all in for different ways of looking at the rules etc.
I'm glad to hear that, cheers!
The TJT wrote:You can allways pm me, and I'll start a conversation. Or make a new topic at regulation forum, and we will have a voting on that after discussion.
Ok, thanks.

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Post by MJS » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:38 pm

QRS wrote:Do you really want to have a site with recordings that playback as they should maybe 1/5 of the time you try them? "Hey, lets download 10 recording and see if maybe two of them works!" Playback problems needs to be dealt with and the best way is to just delete the scores if they are not easy to playback.
The TJT wrote:If normally you need 3 to zero. Then if someone CAN playback...then you should need 4 to zero. (-3 -1 +1=-3)
(you should also assume that recorder can playback himself)
Chad wrote:you are right, actually this can happen if only ONE person can play it back. This is just to avoid a recording that is only going to playback for 25% of the people (or times). If three people can't play something back (usually one of them has tried several ways to get it to work (the one person may have just gotten lucky.)) But if two people can play it back, at least you can rule out luck, mostly, and thus it can be reinstated.
I wasn't misunderstanding then...
Well, my point of view is the following:

I think recordings that playback should stay no matter how hard it can be to make it work.
In my opinion it is unfair to delete a recording when it playbacks fine for some.
If you ask me, I think that if there is at least 1 person that can play it back, then the recording shouldn't be zeroed. Moreover, I think recordings should only be zeroed when they break the rules but oh well... I've already said that.

Besides, I find it way too complicated how things are now.

Thanks for being open to suggestions!
(and for all your comments so far)

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