gmgalax

[LN2]

If you'd have said that in the first place instead of trying to DQ it without checking out the facts I would have accepted that without the need for the back and forth on the forums. The score after the 4th death is only 6,000 less than the final score!

it mostly was my getting pissed off that TG has the settings as 5+1.

it's so preposterous I am wondering if I will even submit scores to TG anymore with this type of inconsistent and random settings going on for tracks there.

for years and years I couldn't get them to add tracks(was DENIED) for releases we actually saw in arcades like mspac attack and mspac plus.
We STILL do not have tracks for these games YET they have one for Ghostmuncher?!?!?!?

wtf TG?!?!?

[gat]

"this new first place score by Gat should be DQ'd...or at least reduced to what the score is after the 3+1(4th death)"

This is the complete sentence of what you wrote, don't give partial sentences to try to change the context of the sentence.
You wrote this without first checking the facts and the rules, don't you think you should have waited until you did or is this pre-judgment allowed by all marp confirmers or just you?

You repeatedly stated I used 4 men to start when I used 5 men to start, again you had the inp why not watch it and count the men if you were having difficulty with the lives counter at the side.
If you have a problem with the marp rules allowing TG settings then follow the procedure to have this rule changed, all I did was follow the rules as they stand if you don't want this to happen then change the rules. As the rules stand I did absolutely nothing wrong so there should not have been any mention of DQ.
After saying that I agree it should be (3+1) but so should ALL pacman games regardless, what makes pacman and getting a score of 3333360 so special, a lot of other games have max scores why not up the lives on them then to make their max score higher? There is a lot of skill required in other games so is a player who can get 3333360 is better than those players, no I don't think so. So why then have this one game singled out for special treatment?
As for your rant about me not trying to eat the ghosts or the fruit on the early boards, I was only trying to see if I could get past sheet 255 to see what happened on this romset I didn't really think I would make it that far, I didn't even know if the inp would work as I had not allocated that much memory to the ramdisk again as I never thought I would make it that far, as I have only ever had 1 kill screen and that was on turbo pac. If I was planning on getting the skillset to make a perfect pacman attempt then I would also have to be able to run a 9th key pattern consistently as well as maximizing the points on the early boards as I could not run the 9th key pattern consistently, as proven by my one and only kill screen, then why learn the more difficult part of maximizing points on the early boards until I had got the 9th key pattern to run consistently. There you go, I actually agree with you that maximizing the points is the more difficult part of the game and I have never said anything to the contrary anywhere.

As I said before I am quite happy to take the (3+1) score, even though I followed MARP rules and did nothing wrong, so either please confirm with the (3+1) score or DQ it.

[Chad]

I apologize, i said 4+1 because the counter said 4 but of course that truly means 5+1 since the current player is included in the 5 lives left. Since this confirmed you used tg settings the recording will be confirmed. I only asked for a tg setting verification...

[gat]

Thank you.

[Chad]

your welcome, that doesn't excuse the lackadaisical tg settings for this pacman, but marp will accept them. But still 3 lives isn't going to stop marathon-able games here, it is interesting for the ability to go passed 255, good to know.

[Weehawk]

...tg settings for this pacman, but marp will accept them.

And if TG responds to Rick's inquiry by changing them to 3+1?

[Chad]

then will edit to 4 lives score of 4.4m. be nice for marp to have it's own rules, but tg is in the rule book so we allow them. still kinda elitist if you upload a slightly easier tg settings to a marp game that already has mame defaults recordings, makes more of a case to not allow tg rules in this case

[gat]

I'll have to correct you again because if the TG settings are changed to 3+1 then the score will be 4943440 after the 4th death which is only 6,000 points less than the final score and just compounds the question of why ln2 made such a big deal over 6,000 points in a score of 4.9 million?

[gat]

If it is elitist to upload a score where scores already set on default settings already exist then I repeat why accept them for puckman and pacmanf where scores already exist on default settings what is so special about those games over every other game on marp and why single it out now when I have submitted but not when others before have submitted?

[Chad]

i thought i watched the 4th life die 4.4, but perhaps i was looking at the life counter, i'll check again if tg changes.

[Weehawk]

...why ln2 made such a big deal over 6,000 points in a score of 4.9 million?

Because he didn't give a shit about your score in particular, but has long been concerned about the settings TG sanctions for Pac-Man games.

As to why MARP allows 5+1 for pacman/puckman, it's because TG does. As to why TG does, you'll have to do some searching on the TG forum. This has been a much-belabored issue since 1999.

...easier tg settings to a marp game that already has mame defaults recordings, makes more of a case to not allow tg rules in this case

Well, that's two editors that it has dawned on in the 5 years since I gave up crying about it. Perhaps in another 5 years you can get something done about it.

[LN2]

"this new first place score by Gat should be DQ'd...or at least reduced to what the score is after the 3+1(4th death)"

This is the complete sentence of what you wrote, don't give partial sentences to try to change the context of the sentence.
You wrote this without first checking the facts and the rules, don't you think you should have waited until you did or is this pre-judgment allowed by all marp confirmers or just you?

the second part of that sentence is the important part. TG's settings are whacked for this track. No reason to use 5+1 for this track.

You repeatedly stated I used 4 men to start when I used 5 men to start

maybe somethign odd there. I just tried it again and it does show 5 start lives now. the first time I started watching this, it initially showed a "4" which changed to a 3 once the first pacman spawned so 4 start lives...no idea why.

anyway, i had stated that I would confirm your score after the 4th death...but your submitted score represents 5+1 so personally I didn't want to confirm that. I would have confirmed the 6k less score after the 4th death. It's not about your score personally or anything personal toward you...but using it as a tool to get TG to fix this crap of 5+1 on a track like this one.

If you have a problem with the marp rules allowing TG settings then follow the procedure to have this rule changed

well, in general I don't...but in this specific case I do cuz the flawed TG track settings.

So why then have this one game singled out for special treatment?

cuz TG didn't want to recognize a perfect game that had a score that some other scoreboard then could allow the 5+1 and 180 more points to make a claim they had the highest, perfect score possible. It was never intended to even allow the 5+1 for anything other than getting those 180 extra points...but since that was not written down...over the years that has changed where 5+1 is allowed for any score for pacman or turbo pacman now. And now it seems to have taken another step where the 5+1 is allowed for other tracks...despite being intentionally kept at 3+1 for many other pacman variants.

There you go, I actually agree with you that maximizing the points is the more difficult part of the game and I have never said anything to the contrary anywhere.

no problem there...said for this rom set since no kill screen there is no need at all to master the game by eating all the monsters on the early boards. it's not even worth the time to try that...cuz you can run 9th key boards amassing points much faster. playing another 10-20 9th key boards versus eating all ghosts is a no brainer...just play the extra 10-20 screens.

either please confirm with the (3+1) score or DQ it.

someone else confirmed it. I chose not to cuz of the TG settings. it's like a protest of those settings. I feel if I had confirmed, that is accepting the settings. I realize those are 2 different things. I would have confirmed it if you showed/edited the score to what it was after the 4th death. I am not an editor, just a confirmer...so I can confirm scores..but can't change the submitted score or make any notes in the description etc.

I confirmed your other recent pac variant submissions with no issues. you used 3+1 for each of those....so I also was taken a bit back why you would chose to use TG settings for the 5+1 for this variant versus using the mame default of 3+1. I guess just because the rules allow it ehh?

it's like hpabst and his pole position scores. he chose a difficulty even higher than TG settings...to have more cars and resulting in getting a higher potential score that can not be matched using mame default or TG settings. he is within the rules cuz as long as you play more difficult settings that is allowed...but I think there is a gray area here where the rules should not be so black-n-white or blindly follow and allow TG settings for any track. it is impossible to reach some of his scores unless you are using that same difficulty which isn't default or TG difficulty.

I hope the editors consider special notes for the gmgalax-gm track allowing 3+1 only...not TG settings.
I hope the TG track gets fixed. Someone blindly set that up without understanding the pacman history etc.

[gat]

"Because he didn't give a shit about your score in particular, but has long been concerned about the settings TG sanctions for Pac-Man games.

As to why MARP allows 5+1 for pacman/puckman, it's because TG does. As to why TG does, you'll have to do some searching on the TG forum. This has been a much-belabored issue since 1999."


If he is concerned about TG sanctions for Pacman games then why not have this issue resolved when people first submitted 5+1 scores for pacman games, why wait until now?

Ah, but you've answered it with marp wants to bask in the glory of the extra 180 points and does not want to feel bettered by TG (or anyone else).

Why is it TG's fault? TG make the rules for their own site and Marp make the rules for their site. Marp wrote rule 2j not TG so it is Marps choosing of that rule which is causing problems not TG, if marp choose to piggyback someone elses rules then marp created the problems associated with it.

Thank you again for criticising me for following MARP rules written by MARP not TG. You cannot try to pass the blame to TG when it is YOUR rule!

[Zhorik]

Rule 2j is an old MARP rule that perhaps has outlived it's usefulness. When it was originally added MARP and TG were working closer together, TG didn't have it's own site for hosting inp files, and TG tracked far fewer MAME tracks than they do now. At the time almost the only MAME titles TG tracked were titles they'd historically tracked during the arcade golden era, and by allowing TG settings to be used it allowed players to use the same submission for both TG and MARP and also to have scores more directly comparable to TG arcade scores. Now that TG tracks far more MAME tracks, the part of Rule 2j that states, "Recording on TG settings, which are the official arcade game settings, is preferred, and will gain your scores further notice from your fellow players," doesn't seem to always make sense.

Regardless, this discussion should probably more over to the Regulation Play forum since nothing in this thread has been about Playbackability. There are no problems with playbackability for the replay and the submission complies with all current MARP rules. If folks want to talk about changing the Special Rules for this game or changing rule 2j altogether, the Regulation Play forum is the correct place.

-George

PS - Rick, you wrote "when doing that in the submission you need to state in your description you are using "TG settings"". I'd like to point out that Gat did state "TG settings" in his description for his submission.

[Weehawk]

If he is concerned about TG sanctions for Pacman games then why not have this issue resolved when people first submitted 5+1 scores for pacman games, why wait until now?

It is not within his purview to resolve the issue. As I indicated in my previous post, he has been complaining about it all along. Search on the TG forums.

Ah, but you've answered it with marp wants to bask in the glory of the extra 180 points and does not want to feel bettered by TG (or anyone else).

MARP's acceptance of TG settings pre-dates the whole 5+1 Pac-Man nonsense.

Thank you again for criticising me for following MARP rules written by MARP not TG.

If this was directed at me (I am the only one quoted in this post), I have not commented on you at all, and it's irresponsible of you to suggest otherwise.

I'd like to point out that Gat did state "TG settings" in his description for his submission.

Gat has already pointed this out. I'd say the dead horse should be just about pureed by now.