mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Discussion of playback questions / problems. Any recording where people have playback problems should appear here.

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kranser
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mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by kranser » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:10 pm

For me this recording only plays back using version 0.150 (not 0.151 as advertised).

http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/0/b/9/m78 ... olf151.zip

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Chad
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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Chad » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:13 pm

I was able to play it back with 151, and the inp says

Code: Select all

Recorded using MAME 0.151[W] (Nov  6 2013)
the zip crc of my wolf151.mame.exe is 543a146a. where does it go bad when playing back with your 151? I noticed around 280k that he ignored the weapon to finish the game, were there any leeching rules applied to this game, It vaguely appears you can do infinite leeching, since you get free lives once in a while and can keep ending the game badly and continuing.
-skito

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by kranser » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:43 pm

Hi Chad,

Thanks for your response.

My Wolfmame 0.151 says 0.151 when loaded, so I assume it is the same version as yours.

It de-synced for me on the vertical scrolling-knight level during the first loop. But on 0.150 [W], it plays back to the end for me. Strange!

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Chad » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:02 pm

yep it can happen, just because it says 151 it may not be the same exe, but our exe's are probably the same, just that the machines we use are different and that means the exe might not do the same things on the same machine.

I've noted that this rec might have potential playback problems if you use 151.

http://replay.marpirc.net/r/ghouls
-skito

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by PeterPunk » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:10 pm

Well, this game seems marathonable, but there's a new problem.
Since MAME 0.153 the default dipswithes are changed, and now the default difficult is set to 2 instead 4 as the previous versions. I've seen the jarl69's input (and yes, he repeats the last stage until to reach 1000000 and then he finishes the game) and I think is easier to leech with this new difficult than the previous one (as the mogue's replays).

Regards.

PS: Sorry for my english.
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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Chad » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:32 pm

understood, does anyone know the exact meaning of the difficulty dipswitch. It does appear that this game was more difficult to leech before, but I can't figure out why we didn't put a leech rule on this game, there were actually two votes taken. And we never applied their value to the rules. Perhaps it's time for another vote? Reg coordinator, go!

---

viewtopic.php?t=8724

a1) If you finish the game, you recieve (100,000 * (8 - lives lost)) points / life left over.
a2) 1,000,000 points instead of 100,000
b) Any extra loops don't count toward the final score. If you beat Lucifer, you get the 10,000 points(right?) for beating Lucifer plus, if A is passed, the extra life bonus.
c) If you repeat more than twice, the score ends there regardless of beating Lucifer and no extra life bonus.

A 3 Votes
B 4 Votes
C 7 Votes

----

viewtopic.php?t=8313

(a) keep scoring at it is
(b) score + 1000000x(nb lifes left if game finished)
(c) score + 1000000x(nb lifes left if game finished except life earned in a pot)
(d) score + 1000000x(8-nb deaths if game finished)
(e) big bonus 1000000 for those who do not die at the end of finishing, and a lesser bonus 7500000/500000/250000 (for those who lose 1/2/3 lives during the game but still finish)

Most people voted for B until MKL pointed out that you can't tell how many lives are left at the end of the game. Then people started to agree on an option more l like C in the later vote.
-skito

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Phil Lamat » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:23 am

I thought this one had been voted yet (rule C, see old topic) and special rules edited, but apparently no.
So rules need to be edited with the C rule (and scores adjusted), or even revoted if you want, but we can't leave things like that because this game can be infinitely leeched (I remember it perfectly, it was in a tournament).
I'm no more the reg coordinator, I hope Barry will do it soon

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Chad » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:39 pm

Where is the location in the game where you can get 70k+ for each life? Or is the only leeching done in the final loops, where you can loop infinitely as long as you do NOT have the final weapon after defeating the Bee. If that is the only place, then perhaps just penalizing the act of looping is good?

I also noticed there was not a voting option that counts loop repetitions against the score. I would propose another scoring method something like: +1,000,000 bonus for finishing, -50k for each time you warp back, AND -50k for each life lost if leeching is possible before the ending loops. I think there should be a penalty for trying to leech (or avoid the final weapon) in the final loops.
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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by mahlemiut » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:13 pm

Personally, I'm not big on manufactured scoring systems, I'd rather it just be 2 loops, if you don't face the final boss on the second loop, then tough, recording ends there.
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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by empardopo » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:33 am

Mogue has just uploaded a new record using wolfmame 0.151. (679,800 pints)
It's interesting to know if special rules will be applied to this game.

Thanks in advance.

Note: Sorry, I opened this post because I didn't see this post.

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by Phil Lamat » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:08 am

Chad wrote: viewtopic.php?t=8724

a1) If you finish the game, you recieve (100,000 * (8 - lives lost)) points / life left over.
a2) 1,000,000 points instead of 100,000
b) Any extra loops don't count toward the final score. If you beat Lucifer, you get the 10,000 points(right?) for beating Lucifer plus, if A is passed, the extra life bonus.
c) If you repeat more than twice, the score ends there regardless of beating Lucifer and no extra life bonus.

A 3 Votes
B 4 Votes
C 7 Votes
First thing to do is to apply the old rule that had been voted, to avoid massive leeching.
Needs Barry's consentment, then I will edit special rules & all scores with this rule.

The difficulty that has changed in default is another story (a classic one I would say) but I don't think on this game that it is a big problem

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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by INNUENDO » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:00 am

mahlemiut wrote:Personally, I'm not big on manufactured scoring systems, I'd rather it just be 2 loops, if you don't face the final boss on the second loop, then tough, recording ends there.
I agree with this rule. Normal game, or be, difficult level 4 instead 2, lives: 30 k and every 60 k and just 2 loops, one is normal game and the second is the last battle with Lucifer.

I guess, you editors can watch MKL replay? He played in these rules and in my opinion, is the best way to avoid infinite leech and totally honest.
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Re: mogue - ghouls - 318,800

Post by mahlemiut » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:38 pm

Here's the update from March, also affects Strider and Willow.
http://git.redump.net/mame/commit/src/m ... 9ba8d031a9

It would appear that difficulty level 2 is the factory settings, according to the games' manuals.

I'd have no issue with allowing level 2 difficulty in all ghouls sets at this point, although another option could be to require level 4 for all ghouls and strider sets available in 0.152 and earlier, and stick with the level 2 default for sets added in 0.153 and later.
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