WCC4 is going to begin !!!

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Phil Lamat
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WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:35 am

Hi all ...
WCC4 was planned for the end of the year, so now it's time to begin ;
I will announce the first game tomorrow

All details there :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/plamat/wcc.html
and direct link to WCC4 page :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/plamat/wcc4.html

Note an important change :
bonus points only for 1st place (to avoid last minute uploads) = 0 for last day input, =1 for the day before, ... =6 for first day ;
I hope this will enough motivating for players to show their technics early :)

I think Destructor is impatient to defend his title :wink:

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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by destructor » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:09 am

Phil Lamat wrote:Note an important change :
bonus points only for 1st place (to avoid last minute uploads) = 0 for last day input, =1 for the day before, ... =6 for first day ;
I hope this will enough motivating for players to show their technics early :)
Good.
Tell me how this will be counted. If I get 1st for all 7 days then my score will be 10+6+5+4+3+2+1=31?

Please choose interesting, colourful games, but not for Pentium 3GHz, I have only Celeron 1GHz. :wink:

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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:15 pm

destructor wrote: Tell me how this will be counted. If I get 1st for all 7 days then my score will be 10+6+5+4+3+2+1=31?
No : you will get 16 points ; 10 for first + 6 for 6days before cut uploading
destructor wrote: Please choose interesting, colourful games, but not for Pentium 3GHz, I have only Celeron 1GHz. :wink:
Don't worry ; mine is a 1.2GHz so I will choose games running at 100 % on mine

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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by destructor » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:32 pm

Phil Lamat wrote:
destructor wrote: Tell me how this will be counted. If I get 1st for all 7 days then my score will be 10+6+5+4+3+2+1=31?
No : you will get 16 points ; 10 for first + 6 for 6days before cut uploading
Hmm... then:

Day 1:
player1 has 1st
Day 2:
player1 has 1st
Day 3:
player1 has 1st
Day 4:
player3 has 1st
Day 5:
player1 has 1st
Day 6:
player1 has 1st
Day 7:
player2 has 1st

What score will be for player1, player2 and player3?

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Post by LN2 » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:24 pm

I think that has too much weight on it...and is flawed. The underlying idea for it is good though.

I might have a first place score...submit it that first day...but then 5 days later a couple perhaps have beaten my score...so I then play it more and beat my old score as well as setting a new first place...so I submit it.

Also, people have lives...someone with tons of time almost everyday has a large enough advantage from that available time already...without giving them up to a 60% bonus in points(6 out of 10 is 60%).

Think of the disadvantage a player has who only has time to play it on the 5th and 6th day of each "week"....versus someone available to play it a lot the first 2 days....in terms of point earning potential.

IMHO there should be no difference there...but there is....and a quite large one.

perhaps just make the incentive for the last 6 or 12 hours worth or something... to discourage last minute submissions.

sorry for butting in...but I have time to reply to these discussions since I can't participate. Have fun! :P

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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:44 pm

destructor wrote: Day 1:
player1 has 1st
Day 2:
player1 has 1st
Day 3:
player1 has 1st
Day 4:
player3 has 1st
Day 5:
player1 has 1st
Day 6:
player1 has 1st
Day 7:
player2 has 1st

What score will be for player1, player2 and player3?
10-7-5

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Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:51 pm

LN2 wrote:I think that has too much weight on it...and is flawed. The underlying idea for it is good though.

I might have a first place score...submit it that first day...but then 5 days later a couple perhaps have beaten my score...so I then play it more and beat my old score as well as setting a new first place...so I submit it.

Also, people have lives...someone with tons of time almost everyday has a large enough advantage from that available time already...without giving them up to a 60% bonus in points(6 out of 10 is 60%).

Think of the disadvantage a player has who only has time to play it on the 5th and 6th day of each "week"....versus someone available to play it a lot the first 2 days....in terms of point earning potential.

IMHO there should be no difference there...but there is....and a quite large one.

perhaps just make the incentive for the last 6 or 12 hours worth or something... to discourage last minute submissions.

sorry for butting in...but I have time to reply to these discussions since I can't participate. Have fun! :P
There was a big discussion at the beginning of the year, and the conclusion was that there wasn't any perfect idea to prevent last minute submission

My bonus points is just a test, it's just there to encourage (and reward) to submit as soon as you improve ; and for a guy mastering the game and smashing the competition, to show his technics early

I don't think it will change too much face of the tourney ; it is rare to see best score on the first days

If too many people don't agree, I should make a poll and forget those bonus points ; last decision in a week ;
but first game will be announced today

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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by Weehawk » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:57 pm

Phil Lamat wrote:
destructor wrote: Day 1:
player1 has 1st
Day 2:
player1 has 1st
Day 3:
player1 has 1st
Day 4:
player3 has 1st
Day 5:
player1 has 1st
Day 6:
player1 has 1st
Day 7:
player2 has 1st

What score will be for player1, player2 and player3?
10-7-5
Wouldn't that be 7-10-5 ?
John Cunningham (JTC)
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Re: WCC4 is going to begin !!!

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:05 pm

Weehawk wrote:Wouldn't that be 7-10-5 ?
Yes

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Post by destructor » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:47 am

Then bonus is only for player which will be 1st in final day? If I win all 6 first days and in last day I will be on 2nd position my score will be 7 points only, no bonus?
I don't know how this system can motivate players to show their technics. In this situation I can show my technics when:
1. I'm master on choosen game and I can finish game with max pionts and I'm 100% sure that I will be 1st in final day
2. I completely don't know how play on game, don't know any secrets in game and don't count for 1st in final day

I don't show my technics never if I'm average player and if I find interesting technics to play.

But never mind. Begin WCC and test this system. :wink:

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Post by LordGaz » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:42 am

Perhaps a better system then is to give one bonus point to the player who has the best score at the end of each day. Ok this has flaws too, eg. you can be 1st all week long then finish 3rd and still get the most points :). It will be like 6 mini competitions and it still won't prevent last minute uploading just before midnight for each day :).

Anyway the advantage you gain from last minute uploading is not so much the hiding of techniques but the fact that other players with less time on their hands and other interests aside from video games don't know what score to aim for. It's a bit like a hidden auction where everyone writes their bid in secret.

It shouldn't really be a competition based on hiding techniques and last minute uploading anyway. Every heard of sharing techniques and friendly competition?

Gaz.

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Post by The TJT » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:29 am

Gary's system seems quite reasonable. It's like Kazaa, all about sharing and caring :cry:

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Post by QRS » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:27 pm

I can only say that sharing and showing etc. worked fine up to approx 2 years ago.. when some people started to take everything to "seriously" and started to hide their scores etc. I hate that kind of "competition" and i stoped participating in the events shortly after.

I see no reason to start playing and show my inps if people just hide their scores from me.... and as I will NEVER hide my scores I will not bother participating.

I can only speak for myself, but I guess I'm not the only one doing that...
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Post by destructor » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:35 pm

Yes, 1 bonus point for each day is good idea.
Day1 - 1
Day2 - 1
...
Day6 - 1
Then winner can collect max 16 points (1+1+1+1+1+1+10).

Other idea - 1 (or maybe 2) bonus point after 2 days.
a) 1 point:
1st at end of day 2 - 1 point
1st at end of day 4 - 1 point
1st at end of day 6 - 1 point
Winner can collect max 13 points (1+1+1+10)
b)2 points:
1st at end of day 2 - 2 point
1st at end of day 4 - 2 point
1st at end of day 6 - 2 point
Winner can collect max 16 points (2+2+2+10)

If player1 hide score until last seconds and he win in last day and player 2 show all tactics from first day and he has 1st in each day (from 1 to 6) then:

system 1:
- player2 score = 6
- player1 score =10

System 2a:
- player2 score = 3
- player1 score = 10

System 2b:
-player2 score = 6
-player1 score = 10

I don't know which system will be best but I think these bonus systems seems better than your system Phil. We can test your system, no problem, this is discussion only.

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Post by The TJT » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:12 pm

destructor wrote:
If player1 hide score until last seconds and he win in last day and player 2 show all tactics from first day and he has 1st in each day (from 1 to 6) then:

system 1:
- player2 score = 6
- player1 score =10
You forget that if player 2 finishes second at the end of the week, he gets 7 points more...

system 1:
- player2 score = 13
- player1 score =10

:wink:

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