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LN2
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Re: Discouraging last minute submissions

Post by LN2 »

Zhorik wrote:Another approach to try and discourage last minute submissions is to have a random element in the cutoff time. The idea would be to have a random cutoff time somewhere between, for example, the 5th and 8th day. It isn't practical to hold onto INPs for long, since you risk getting cutoff without notice.
That approach would only serve those who have time to play a lot each and every day.

if the week runs from Sunday to Sunday, the only time some might have to play is that following weekend...the last 2 days before the deadline.

Why potentially ruin the tournament for them by randomly altering the deadline?

it's all about competing at the games selected. I don't think the last hour of submissions is a big deal anyway. If you can't top the score without viewing other player's replays, then IMHO you don't deserve to win for that game to start with. :P All playing should strive to get the best score they can get in the time they have available to play. That is the same regardless of other scores submitted.

If I was asked what score have I been able to get for a game...I would answer that. I wouldn't upload the inp though until I was "done" playing. Why upload that then 2 hours later beat my own score easily? Players could upload inps that aren't their best to try and fake out the other players into thinking that is the best they can do.

You can always watch the replays after the fact for your enjoyment.
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Post by Chad »

haven't followed this thread much but has anyone thought about blind submisions? where all players don't know the scores/standings untill the particular contest is over? yeah, you don't know where you stand during the competition but at least late submisions would NOT mean anything then...
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Post by LordGaz »

Chad wrote:haven't followed this thread much but has anyone thought about blind submisions? where all players don't know the scores/standings untill the particular contest is over? yeah, you don't know where you stand during the competition but at least late submisions would NOT mean anything then...
You mean the same as what happens in the Deca ;). In fact you don't know the standings until 2 weeks after the contest is over :D.
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Post by LN2 »

yeah, blind isn't a bad idea either. For most live arcade contest many are competing at the same time where you really have little to no idea where you stand against others until after your play is over.

It definitely makes the timing of submissions moot...plus likely gets a couple players to try "harder" versus what they might have done otherwise to be more sure they maybe have the top score....which they maybe still don't...hehe
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Post by destructor »

We can use bonus points not for showing tactics but maybe for more interesting tournament, fight for each one point.

I don't like Deca system where I don't see other players scores (not inps, scores). And where I don't see my own scores, I don't know whether judge receive my scores or not. I remember sometimes my inps didn't reach to judges (disappear in internet?). Stupid idea.
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Post by LN2 »

destructor wrote:I don't like Deca system where I don't see other players scores (not inps, scores). And where I don't see my own scores, I don't know whether judge receive my scores or not. I remember sometimes my inps didn't reach to judges (disappear in internet?). Stupid idea.
I can understand your point there..but that is easily addressed by having in that table an asterisk placed when a score has been received...but perhaps just not verified and entered yet.

It wouldn't take much to fill in a table with asterisks for inps received.

However, if you had submitted 1 score..and then upgraded it with another..you might not know if the newer one was received until the scores were posted.

I think giving the scores is fine. I would reveal my current best score to anyone who asked. That's totally different than having an inp where competition can watch my inp and only from watching it then potentially beat my score.
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Post by destructor »

Maybe add checkbox when you submit score:
- players can watch this inp
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Post by Patwos »

LN2 wrote:I think giving the scores is fine. I would reveal my current best score to anyone who asked. That's totally different than having an inp where competition can watch my inp and only from watching it then potentially beat my score.
If you think your score is good enough to win why would you care about someone else watching it.... unless you've happened to stumble across some "secret" technique which means you can outscore anyone. But then all that means is you know a "secret" technique not necessarily that you're the better player on that game.

Personally, it would feel like a "Clayton's Victory" to me if I happened to wind just because of a "secret" technique. I've never had issues with people beating my scores by copying my techniques either with Mame/Marp or in the arcades. In fact I feel quite the opposite in that I find it somewhat flattering that they copied my technique in order to get their better score. Makes you feel like you must have been doing something right.

To my mind, the TG approach of having their secret videos that nobody else other than the judge is allowed to see is more than just a little pretentious. If the person felt it was worth recording to get the score, they should be prepared to share it with the world... seeing a good recording is one thing... trying to emulate it is something completely different - unless it's such a totally pattern based game that anyone with ½ a brain and 2 ounces of hand-eye co-ordination could match the technique in which case the "record" is nothing much to write home about anyway.

$0.02 worth of words from a somewhat occasional poster. :)
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Post by QRS »

Patwos wrote:.. unless it's such a totally pattern based game that anyone with ½ a brain and 2 ounces of hand-eye co-ordination could match the technique in which case the "record" is nothing much to write home about anyway.
Haha my thoughts exactly :)
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Post by LordGaz »

Yup, same here. In fact if I discovered a 'secret trick' or technique, I would want everyone to know about it so we can all compete on the same level. I really can't understand inp hoarding at all.
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Post by LN2 »

QRS wrote:
Patwos wrote:.. unless it's such a totally pattern based game that anyone with ½ a brain and 2 ounces of hand-eye co-ordination could match the technique in which case the "record" is nothing much to write home about anyway.
Haha my thoughts exactly :)
yet perfect pacman runs seem to get tons of prestige.

..when half of them were just 100% running developed patterns. Those guys even had developed patterns for all the early boards...and the split-screen too.

Even then, there is still skill involved for when a turn wasn't done in a timely manner...then the pattern is broken for that screen...so you must have the skill to get through it getting both fruits etc. without dying.

I know even on the game I reached the split screen I'm guessing there were at least 15-20 boards where I blew a turn so had to "wing-it" to complete the board.


...so it does take more than half a brain...and these guys developed their own patterns even if others were available for them to just use and copy.

That's the way it should be done. In my game I developed my own 9th key pattern versus using one of the 100s available.
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Post by dbh »

To my mind, the TG approach of having their secret videos that nobody else other than the judge is allowed to see is more than just a little pretentious. If the person felt it was worth recording to get the score, they should be prepared to share it with the world
The wording above is somewhat misleading. The decision to make a videotape "public" is ultimately up to the individual gamer, not TG (although TG's default policy is to not release tapes or strategies without the gamer's permission).
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Post by mahlemiut »

LN2 wrote:yet perfect pacman runs seem to get tons of prestige.
Probably because you need tons of stamina to keep from falling asleep after 200 more or less identical stages. :)
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Post by mahlemiut »

destructor wrote:I can't find my hand-dictionary and use stupid dictionary installed on my PC. Second meaning is 'vulture'. Bird, not dog :D
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Post by Nanni »

Hy guys :wink:

imo the competitions are games itself so the rules must give a good game, hoard a score is a cheat manner to play wcc, knockouts or tournaments, but is a good way to "win" that competition; the 24h rules or bunus points for "fast lap" (best score of the day) give motivations for some more tactic approach so you can't hoard until last minute... But, please, keep in mind whic Leader Board is a better tool to show best players (or more motivated players..) competitions are games about playng games so hoard or show is a tactical decision (look at devastanting scores of BBH in K4).

About bonus point, they give more interest in every "point's day" so best choice (imo) is a point for every day (and i have already 3 point :roll: )

Bye :D
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