Message for WRX2

[Barthax]

If that is even for an actual Donkey Kong game, that's not the official Donkey Kong at official settings then.

Remember that you have a bias to TGTS. Just because YOU have that bias does not mean everyone does.

If this guy had broken 1 million on an official Donkey Kong machine at correct settings it would have been big news where all of us would have heard about it also.

Why does the guy HAVE to publish the fact? From what I gather from this thread the guy has recorded it, and put up the record for sale... the guy wants to make money from the recording. He may not be aware of the type of media coverage that this sort of recording would get in other parts of the world.

You need to open your mind to more aspects of other people's views, preferably before posting.

[LN2]

Remember that you have a bias to TGTS. Just because YOU have that bias does not mean everyone does.

It's not about bias at all. It's about unfair and unqualified score comparisons.

Novice and a few other JP players seem to think they are all by far the best gamers in the world while USA players generally suck because they aren't able to match the scores of the JP players.

My answer to that is duH. The Japanese players are playing on a different and often easier rom set version of the game. They often have easier factory settings for the game. They mostly have an anything goes policy for what you can do in a game to max out points. Anyone that has played the japan rom set version of games vs usa version will often see this is the case. It isn't always the case, but often the case...and very rarely the opposite case where the japan version ends up being more difficult.

TG generally has tougher settings, special rules in some cases not allowing cheap tricks in games to get higher scores.

This isn't saying they aren't skilled.

So it's not about bias, but you can't say a 940k Donkey Kong score played at TGTS on the USA rom set machine is inferior to some claimed 1 million DK score from JP. As I said above I'd bet that JP player started with 6 men, not the 3 men the USA player that got 940k started with. If you give him 3 more starting men that likely gets his score into the 970s and maybe 980k. Then, if there is some even subtle difference between the USA rom set and Japan rom set(s)(they have a few) that allow for a little more hammer time or speed differences etc. then that alone could easily allow for 25-50+k in points. Therefore scoring that much higher on that different machine isn't necessarily display of any superior skill to a USA score even though the JP score is higher. A lot more information would be needed to see the differences between the games to make any real conclusions.

Achieving 1 million on DK even at the more men and easier settings is still very impressive...but you can't say conclusively it's superior to the TG score without a lot more information.

That is similar for tons of games. Look where novice once again mentions Camel Try "WR" score of 9,999,990. BFD! Why on earth is he mentioning this again? That score is obtained from bogus gameplay warping through all the walls breaking the rules the game truly is. It's not worthy to be called a WR at all. It's something if USA players wanted to play the game dishonestly they could achieve also. It also makes competition for the game pointless since the score maxes at 9,999,990.

Yet novice uses this and other examples claiming they are WRs and their players are superior for those games. If they are truly superior, then they should easily be able to top our scores using the USA rom sets and TG settings also.

Those scores are scores to be noted etc. but don't qualify for any WR qualification because of the way the games were played. They are fine for records for that scoreboard using their rules etc.

TG has this same criteria also..so no, I'm not biased saying it applies to one but not the other. It applies to all scoreboards and all possible comparisons.

As you have seen here numerous times novice demonstrates/copies methods of play from other Asian players to get really high scores which often end up being banned techniques here at MARP with an international flavor of player...not just USA. Just because it's a higher score doesn't mean it's a higher skilled player.

Why does the guy HAVE to publish the fact? From what I gather from this thread the guy has recorded it, and put up the record for sale... the guy wants to make money from the recording. He may not be aware of the type of media coverage that this sort of recording would get in other parts of the world.

Sure he is aware...hence why he is trying to sell the video for such a ridiculous cost. if he didn't know this he wouldn't think his recording is worth nearly $10,000.

You need to open your mind to more aspects of other people's views, preferably before posting.

You need to more carefully read what's posted. You misinterpreted it and filled in lines yourself. My mind is totally open. It's players like novice with closed minds constantly calling anyone who doesn't 100% agree with him a total ignorant loser and complainer.

For a different type of comparison, think about home run records for baseball in Japan. yes, they are higher values than USA's Major League Baseball records. so what? Are you going to say those JP players are better power hitters? That comparison is totally flawed and moot because the stadiums in Japan are much smaller.

It just leads to speculation of everyone wondering if you had a player like Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa or Alex Rodriguez playing in Japan how many HRs would they hit? The year Barry hit 73 HRs he might have hit 100+ in Japan as many fly balls that ended up being outs in USA stadiums would have been HRs in Japan stadiums. It might end up they even hit less HRs cuz they would get walked tons more than they even get walked in MLB so they wouldn't have very many chances to even hit HRs. It's the same game but different rules or setups for the game...similar to how we have different rom sets and dipswitch settings. it's the same game but not the same rules and settings...so scores must be tracked differently for each and can't really be directly compared.

Novice and many other JP players would use their flawed logic and say the Japan players are superior power hitters cuz they have higher home run totals. Instead of seeing the flaw in that logic they just say the rest of us are ignorant complaining losers for mentioning the flaw. Notice how Novice says it a few times in this thread. Where is the complaining? No one is complaining about it. It's a discussion.

TG has separate tracks for all kinds of variances like this. They realize you can't really compare these...so even a game like mspacman....the original mspacman is tracked as a separate record versus mspac/galaga 20th anniversary even though for most players it's exactly the same game. It's not clear if odds of pseudo-random fruit are the same for both...and you have the kill screen issue...as in the 20th anniversary machine it's more like MAME where you get the 8 extra boards you won't get most of the time with the original game.

When I say you can't make that conclusion at all I'm not being biased at all. They are being biased in their comments making flawed comparisons and conclusions.

I'm not saying at all this guy's 1 million score doesn't exist. I was only saying we would need a lot more info before saying if that is any better than the TG 940k WR score.

Novice, in regards to pac-man... yes I agree for scores in the range 3.1-3.3 million..however, it takes mastery of the game to get beyond the 3.3 million mark. If it was so ho-hum and trivial to accomplish it Novice then how come USA and Canada players are the first ones and what appears to still be the only players to achieve perfect or very near perfect scores?

[Barthax]

"Bla bla.. I have a different point of view, bla bla"

So why argue the toss?

[Barthax]

From a stand point of not caring less about the Novice v LN2 arguement, but also from a stand point of being sick & tired of discovering them... I have this to say:

Novice points out that Japanese players have achieved scores, in cases, much higher than any "American" (read TG) scores. Yes, this may be true - so what?

LN2 points out that if those Japanese players attempt the games without bugs on TGTS settings, the scores wouldn't be achieved.

What happens next, I wonder:

Novice points out that Japanese players have achieved scores, in cases, much higher than any "American" (read TG) scores. Yes, this may be true - so what?

LN2 points out that if those Japanese players attempt the games without bugs on TGTS settings, the scores wouldn't be achieved.

... and next?

Novice points out that Japanese players have achieved scores, in cases, much higher than any "American" (read TG) scores. Yes, this may be true - so what?

LN2 points out that if those Japanese players attempt the games without bugs on TGTS settings, the scores wouldn't be achieved.

... ad infinitum.

... ad nauseum.

Novice: respect.

LN2: snore.

[LN2]

"Bla bla.. I have a different point of view, bla bla"

Man, you just totally discredited yourself for this discussion by making up quotes.

That is one of my pet peeves. That is very disrespectful to make up a quote for someone that they didn't say.

LN2 points out that if those Japanese players attempt the games without bugs on TGTS settings, the scores wouldn't be achieved.

I didn't point that out at all in the context you are giving it.

They very well might match or beat some scores.

They will not be able to do it in other cases though because with the TG settings or using the USA rom set for the game it's IMPOSSIBLE to amass as many points as you get on the Japan rom set. That's not about skill at all, but just what's possible.

That is exactly the case with Donkey Kong. The game has an "end". It reaches a level where you are moving in extreme slow motion where it's virtually impossible to complete the level. Most call this a kill screen because your game will end on this level.

Given there is a definite ending point to the game, there is a limit on the #points you can get. If you have more starting men, this allows a player to get as many points on one of the barrel levels for example, then just let the bonus timer run out and repeat that for as many extra men as they have. This allows the player to score another 30+k in points if you have 3 more start men. This isn't about skill at this point. it's about how many times you get to releech points off a level killing off your man to repeat it a few more times.

It's that context I made the above statement. Someone with even better skill at DK might be able to leech a few more points here and there. There are a few players that have reached the kill screen in DK.

then you have untangibles like I mentioned above....where in the JP rom set vs USA rom set, there might be subtle differences in the gameplay.

Super Pacman is a great example of this. The Japan and USA rom sets play identically EXCEPT in the Japan distribution the speed of pacman when super is 33% faster. This allows the player to cover more ground on the mazes when super allowing for evne easier eating of monsters on the earlier boards and scoring more points on the bonus stages.

2 equally skilled players playing these 2 versions will end up with quite different scores through a certain stage # simply because of this difference between the 2 rom sets...even if the dip switches are set exactly the same etc.

So if you were comparing a 300k from superpac with a 270k score from superpcm, I would say the superpcm score is a better score cuz if you had that extra super speed just for the bonus stages, that would make up for that 30k difference alone.

Now take another example like pacmania. A player can develop patterns for each maze similar to pacman. No one has done this but it can be done with enough playing and development of the patterns.

Even with this, the game has an end. The Japan rom set has a MUCH higher potential score than the USA rom set for pacmania. Why? The Japan rom set gives the player more boards to play and amass points from than the USA version.

So take a player with the japan record for pacmania and have them play the usa version and allow them to totally develop different patterns and they will still far way short of their own score on the Japan rom set.

Comparing scores from scoreboards like Gamest with TG is quite flawed for these types of reasons.

Yes, a score on Gamest likely represents the record score for the japan rom set of pacmania using whatever dip switch settings they allow for that game. it hardly makes it a world record though.

Likewise with TG's record score for pacmania on the USA rom set using the TG settings. It's a TG record....not technically a world record for games where there is a big difference. You can call them a WR for that rom set and game settings though for each scoreboard.

However, if that player played the usa rom set in MAME and beat the TG-MAME score for pacmania, then that player can claim that record and the combination of holding both the TG and gamest high scores for pacmania might qualify them as the WR holder for the game.

Also, as novice has clearly demonstrated quite a few times here with MARP submissions, he has set or crushed the previous MARP score in many cases...only to find out after the fact he is using or exploiting some bug in the game.

I bet I can always beat you in chess if I treat each of my pawns as a knight or a bishop or a queen yet your pieces are still following the standard rules of chess. That wouldn't be a very fair competition would it?

Comparing a 9,999,990 Camel Try score where the player has set the analog sensitivity extremely high to exploit a bug in the game code to warp through walls etc. to get that high score to someone playing the game as intended by the designer getting perhaps a 700k score isn't fair at all. The 9,999,990 score doesn't even really require all that much skill. Novice proved that with his demonstration inp he had submitted.

The first time I tried it I got 2.3 million. With some practice at the timing to warp through the walls more I could easily get 9.9 million. It takes a lot less skill to do that versus actually playing through the mazes, breaking blocks, getting combination breaks and combinations of other objects.

There are many other examples similar to this for scores at Gamest. You have been here at MARP long enough to see the various issues for various scores and games.

Now perhaps a JP player that can get the 9.9 million can also kick butt playing it as intended and have a score that can actually reflect his skill level for the game. However, he chose not to do that.

[LN2]

Novice: respect.

Man, you are not viewing things properly if you think novice is showing respect. He is constantly putting down others around here and often puts down TG and most of the records as he has done in this thread.

... ad infinitum.

... ad nauseum.

LN2: snore.

I have not discussed anything along this line in several months....so not sure where you get the fact I repeat myself ad nauseum.

My above is being quite objective...just stating the logic in comparing scores.

It's clear from his and others's submissions here using techniques allowed for Gamest records for most games that scoreboard has an anything goes policy. This allows for higher scores for many games. To compare that saying that scoreboard is superior cuz it was a vast majority of the highest scores isn't fair at all when comparing to TG who has more difficult settings on what often is the more difficult or limiting rom set(USA rom sets).

If you had TG players play the games under Gamest rules or visa-versa then you could make more direct comparisons. For many games you can make direct comparisons already, and oddly japan scores for those games, like the golden classics listed above, fall shy of TG scores. hmmm...

[DaviL]

Great treat LN2 (all posts).

[Novice]

That is similar for tons of games. Look where novice once again mentions Camel Try "WR" score of 9,999,990. BFD! Why on earth is he mentioning this again? That score is obtained from bogus gameplay warping through all the walls breaking the rules the game truly is. It's not worthy to be called a WR at all. It's something if USA players wanted to play the game dishonestly they could achieve also. It also makes competition for the game pointless since the score maxes at 9,999,990.

Yet novice uses this and other examples claiming they are WRs and their players are superior for those games. If they are truly superior, then they should easily be able to top our scores using the USA rom sets and TG settings also.

grow up pls.
simply playinging upon different rules.(of course skill level also different)
before found warp, sweet spot, camel try expert /special record was higer than 1,140,000.

"it is not worthy to be called a WR"
blah.... no one want your opinion who can not do it.
never insult anything you can not!
both your skill and knowledge are not enough to insult other tricks.
you just feel unfair and scream like crazy.
I think it is enough reason to be called as "COMPLAINING LOSER".


can you understand ,MMC aka IA?

[LN2]

simply playinging upon different rules.(of course skill level also different)

Yes, I totally agree with this. if we both are playing a game of chess and agree to treat all pawns like queens for both players then we can still play that game and have fun doing it. It requires developing different skills to play the game in this different manner.

However, if you master skills and techniques playing that odd version of "chess" that doesn't mean at all that you are a master at the standard chess.

You are making the flaw taking that 9,999,990(btw, I only wrote about Camel Try cuz you listed it above as a WR) can be compared with playing the game under it's "normal"/intended rules. Sure, that can be decided for a tournament or event or even a scoreboard I guess.

However, who is the winner when 10 players have all achieved 9,999,990?!?! There is no winner just based on score.

Also, you might have some really skilled players at the game say screw playing the game normally and play it using the warps so they can compete with the others using the warps the event allows. fine...but I think something is lost there. You never get to see that display of skill playing the game as intended.

I would much rather watch masters playing a game as intended displaying their mastery of the game versus using a trick where you then watch them bumping against a bumper for 45 seconds to then warp back out of that and through a wall on the next level to complete it in 1 second...then have the time to repeat the bumper camping the next level.

That is far more boring to watch versus seeing someone breaking lots of blocks in combinations for big points...or even perhaps taking advantage of some bumpers in spots but bumpers within the course without warping through a wall.

Playing the game normally, the scores of the players from that event would clearly show who are the more skilled players at the game. Using the different warping mode of play you have little clue who is really the best at playing the real game of Camel Try.

Ok, you mentioned the best score playing it "normally" was 1.1 million...so let's see that play. That must be great skill to get that score playing it normally...although I'd bet even that run the player uses and wins the lottery and gets the slot machine etc. to get extra time...so they have that extra time to leech off bumpers and blocks etc.

TG has decided to not allow the use of the slot machine or lottery at all since any reasonably skilled player can easily complete the course without running out of time.

To make a record where an aspect of it is based on luck when not necessary is a choice TG has made. So any scores TG ends up showing for this game won't be comparable to other scoreboards where they allow that extra slot machine and lottery time. This might mean the largest potential score is only around 775-800k for the special course....instead of 1.1 million. This means it requires just as much skill to reach the 775-800k score playing via TG rules than it does reaching 1.1 million using Gamest rules. If you say the 1.1 million score is superior and that player more skilled just based on score alone that is very flawed.

"it is not worthy to be called a WR"
blah.... no one want your opinion who can not do it.

I had given an inp where I set 2.3 million on the first try of warping. It's not my fault you don't have access to a mac to view the inp.

This was only warping into 1 bumper leech spot that run. This was only 1 run...so I was a total newbie at doing the warping thing yet within a few minutes of playing was starting to see how to make the warp happen.

Anyway, I'm sure with more practice I could warp more consistently and reach 9.9 million...so what? big deal. 9.9 million score is pointless cuz anyone setting up a machine in the same manner will quite easily after an hour or so of practice achieve the same thing.

Playing the game under those "rules" that allow warping etc. is a game I care not to play...and a game most North American players would not care to play...cuz it's pointless.

For games that the score is pointless TG doesn't even bother to track them. Gamest seems to still track them for some reason.

never insult anything you can not!
both your skill and knowledge are not enough to insult other tricks.

Yeah, I see you have no problem insulting others. Also show me where I insult the trick? I am not insulting it at all. It's cool to see as far as seeing tricks. That's far different than playing the game as designed and intended. I am only saying playing by different rules you can't compare the scores. TG separately tracks games using different settings even. There are "tournament" settings then "marathon" settings for many games. Using your logic you would say the players obtaining the millions in score playing a game at marathon settings is better than the player who got the top score using tournament settings. This isn't necessarily the case at all. it actually often ends up where the tournament setting scores truly separate the players by skill...where at marathon settings(which is normally factory default for many games you can marathon) it's more just an endurance contest more than skill at playing the game.

Plus, I showed I can for this warp thing in cameltry... I could careless you don't believe it etc. That's your issue of not believing it, not mine. My skill at Camel Try based on that inp you had uploaded is far beyond your skill at Camel Try. You can watch QRS's or TJT's inps for Cameltry to see what skill is required to reach the scores we are reaching.

It was clear from your inp that for mazes where you couldn't benefit from a warp so had to get through the course you were like a newbie playing it.

It was very much like a newbie playing the game as many time penalty blocks you were hitting and general lack of control.

A game played via rules where a newbie can get millions beyond the best skilled player in the world can get playing at regular rules totally demonstrates allowing the warp makes the score competition pointless.

you just feel unfair and scream like crazy.
I think it is enough reason to be called as "COMPLAINING LOSER".

It's not about any particular person. You are the one screaming like crazy always calling people complaining losers. I'm not screaming about anything. I have not discussed cameltry at all the past 10 months except when you bring it up once again as the 9.9 million score being superior to MARP scores here. That isn't the case at all. If warping was allowed, we would have 3-4 players with 9.9 million scores for the special course...big deal.

If you are playing a game by different rules then it's not really the same game. To compare the results of the game played via different rules is what's not fair.

You are comparing a 9.9 million Camel try score and calling it superior to a 700+k score by someone playing it normally. From what I saw(and yes, I watched that one 9.9 million inp by a jp player) that isn't the case at all. Yes, that guy had gotten the sensitivity tuned where he could have reasonable success at warping. With a few hours of playing it I could likely match it. He reached 9.9 million with lots of time to spare. I might not have as much time left but I would still reach the max score.

so what? The score is essentially meaningless playing the game in that manner. To label it as superior play is flawed.

To note this isn't complaining at all. Most of us here want a fair game where all are playing it via the same rules...which in most cases means playing the game within the designed and intended rules.

[Zteuer]

"Bla bla.. I have a different point of view, bla bla"

So why argue the toss?

That's a very good compression algorithm Pete. Didn't lose any of the content either.

[Novice]

Blah....
complaining loser is just a complaining loser after all.
they never grew up. so I gave it up to TEACH something.


>we would have 3-4 players with 9.9 million scores for the special course

I certain 10years are not enough for you to get 10^7-10.
it is not an easy act than you thinking of.




THEY never understand "NO ONE REQUIRE ANY OPINION WHO CAN NOT DO IT BY THIERSELVES".
I already very well understand their opinion.
and no one want to hear any more (because it is not more than loser's complain)






P.S.
WINNER OF COUNTER STOPPED GAME(PERFECT GAME) was recognized as...

1 The man who is the first counter stopper.
Champion of "GUWANGE" was recognized as YUSEMI(his play was exported for many country) .
so no one will be the champ even if other player gets 99,999,999 at 1st stage.

2 The man who counter stop fastest.
Xevious current record is 249 minutes(4H+09M) to 9,999,990.

3 The man who counter stop with cheapest level.
Emeraldia 10 million with only 60 levels.(amazing)
tetris 1million-1 to 130 lines.....
circus charlie 1million-10 to 14 levels (do not hear me how to)
Generally, very good games which has enough worth to try be champion
must have enough digits and limited stage and very good balance.

[Weehawk]

I have not discussed cameltry at all the past 10 months...

uuh, notice who suggested Camel Try. QRS...who has more of the firts place scores for the game than I do. He is the dangerous one for that cuz I can't participate in these events anyway. If I play it will be on the side just to play along with you guys..not in the competition. Although I think if our(QRS and I) competition wasn't spoiled by another player I won't name then I would have kept playing and beaten at least a few of his scores again...but then again QRS might have turned around and beaten me back. We were going back-n-forth a lot for a couple weeks.

[mahlemiut]

I had given an inp where I set 2.3 million on the first try of warping. It's not my fault you don't have access to a mac to view the inp.

I think I can predict Hisa's response...

Something like: "2.3m is not 9.9m. No complain until you get 9.9m"

[Novice]

I had given an inp where I set 2.3 million on the first try of warping. It's not my fault you don't have access to a mac to view the inp.

I think I can predict Hisa's response...

Something like: "2.3m is not 9.9m. No complain until you get 9.9m"

very sorry. a little different.
SNORE MUST BE DONE WHEN YOU SLEEP.(always sleep? sorry)
he uploaded his screenshot of 1.6 million. my score was 2.27M or so.
if he get 2.3m,then he must upload it and try to shut up me.

congratulations for your fourth nick-name.
MACMAMECHEATER
IGNORANT ASSHOLE
COMPLAINING LOSER
and a LIAR. what is your favorite?

[tar]

The people of United States have accomplished much.
INVENTIONS
Alexander Grahm Bell - The telephone
The Wright brothers - The airplane
Thomas Edison - The lightbulb
industrial revolution
Railroads
We peaked around the year 1900.
we are currently in decline
overindulgence
work too hard / greed

The people of Japan have accomplished much.
INNOVATE improve
Electronics
Transportation
Religion
social order

Bullet train railway

high cost of living , but they more than likely are buying u.s.a.
real estate

discipline

Novice , how did you learn the english language?