Track N Field : using one button for speed

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dskys
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Post by dskys » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:23 pm

Tommi is very close to maxing the game out - with a perfect game based on 7.44 100m and ALL bonuses (ie not possible with a 7.44 unless there's two Tommis :P) it's just shy of 102k

Actually I doubt 3 9.72s are possile either, so drop 4k off the above (sprints, lj and hammer) and your about there, 98k Wh00sh indeed :)

Im gonna try the waiting after the first press thing on the sprints - will be fascinating if that's the key!
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Post by The TJT » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:24 pm

Rick wrote: man, I can only imagine how many games TJT and others had where through the first several events they were in great shape...to then only get a 94m hammer throw....and they start over knowing they can't top their best. ahhhh!
Dude, many games! Image
dskys wrote: Actually I doubt 3 9.72s are possile either.
You cannot get 9,72 with first jump, because you must have succeeded jump before 9,72.
My memory fails me now a bit, but I think max at first jump is 9,63

But, actually scorewise, only best jump matters...You get score from your best jump only, after the long jump event. Same with javelin and hammer. That is why it is most profitable to take 1-2 1000 point bonuses at javelin, depending on how good your first throw is.
Im gonna try the waiting after the first press thing on the sprints - will be fascinating if that's the key!

That would be great to figure out.
Lemme know if you find out the secret of fast start :)

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Post by dskys » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Waiting makes ME slower, maybe I'm doing something daft...?

What I have decided is that slow and steady up to 10xx then go as fast as poss gets good times. Consistent 7.9x on joypad - yep I still ain't bought any proper controls, and that's with misses and rhythm probs too

Still can't hit sub 9.8 on 110....

Tommi, in theory there are 6 1000pt bonuses but 4 are unavailable cos on the sprints a fast time means no tie, on LJ 3 identical jumps are unlikely with the 1% bonus each successful jump and on hammer it seems to be better to hit a long throw rather that aim for 1k extra.... Still 98k is POSSIBLE
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Post by The TJT » Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:56 pm

dskys wrote:
What I have decided is that slow and steady up to 10xx then go as fast as poss gets good times.
Yep, that might be the key. Cause you don't need full speed for 1000 cm/s anyway. I think I did run as fast as possible all the way at my under 7,60's breaks of sound barrier.
Tommi, in theory there are 6 1000pt bonuses but 4 are unavailable cos on the sprints a fast time means no tie, on LJ 3 identical jumps are unlikely with the 1% bonus each successful jump (cut) Still 98k is POSSIBLE
98k...well I think 97k, if I'd run 7,47, that I've only done once in so many tries.
Something like 7,60 or maybe 7,55 would be possible, if we're twisting probability a bit.
If you'd get that long jump 1000, that would raise score to 98k....but then again, it's damn rare to get it...and if you would get it, would all other events be max on that rare occasion.
Then again, a slight improvement at javelin and 110m and hammer are also possible. Some even claim 2,51 at high jump.
(paste]and on hammer it seems to be better to hit a long throw rather that aim for 1k extra....
You must mean javelin, not hammer.
Nobody has found the way to get hammer bonus yet, have you?
Hammer probably has a bonus, looking at mame graphics shows some extra figure there.
My assumption is that hammer gives bonus if you get 3 same distance throws; which btw can't be done. Prove me wrong, tell me how to get hammer bonus, and I'll buy you a beer or an icecream. Ok, make it a pint.

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Post by LN2 » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:48 pm

The TJT wrote:Nobody has found the way to get hammer bonus yet, have you?
Hammer probably has a bonus, looking at mame graphics shows some extra figure there.
hehe..I was about to ask this. I'm guessing there is one there also...but how to get it.

...there are so many odd things you can do with the hammer.

hmm, maybe very slow speed...you drop the hammer on your foot or get it wrapped around you and get the 1k...hehe This would be cool...cuz you would be able to likely do it anytime you wanted.

maybe as you said...three 45 degree angle throws....or some other angle....given you are waiting for the right release...odds are one or more of those will be over 100m so not register correctly anyway.

hmm, maybe there is an exact 100m throw that would register as 0.00 and get you the 1k. extremely remote odds of doing that anyway.

...maybe something else...like getting a speed and angle where the hammer goes up into the fans and hits one of them...who then grows a big bump on his head with a nice 1000 on it. hehe

I just wish the athlete had more respect for sports...instead of jerking off when he commits a foul. That is distasteful! hehe

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Post by The TJT » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:22 am

LN2 wrote:
I just wish the athlete had more respect for sports...instead of jerking off when he commits a foul. That is distasteful! hehe
Must be too much hormones :lol:

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Post by dskys » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:23 am

Nah, I've spent many games looking for the hammer bonus and I agree that three equalthrows are impossible - i find it hard to believe that konami would put an impossible bonus into the game so it must be something else... Someone must have got it at some point thus someone must know!

I've trawled google too but no luck. On dith's page he has the bonus icon and after looking through the games gfx I agree with him that the little fighter plane is the bonus symbol for hammer, but how to get it?!?!!?
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Post by dskys » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:02 pm

This might be of interest...

I am waiting on some chap at Konami UK to come back to me re the hammer throw secret. He can't find the answer in the UK division so he's gone to people in Japan to see if there's a record of it anywhere or if anyone knows. He's replied pretty quickly to my mails so far soyou never know....!
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Post by The TJT » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:55 pm

dskys wrote:This might be of interest...

I am waiting on some chap at Konami UK to come back to me re the hammer throw secret. He can't find the answer in the UK division so he's gone to people in Japan to see if there's a record of it anywhere or if anyone knows. He's replied pretty quickly to my mails so far soyou never know....!
I'm doubtful you get answer there. As you know, reverse engineering the code might be only solution...
----
Watched your Trackfld inp...Pretty good 100m(spot on start...7,84) and hammer. Longjump could have been better, if you've got that 42 angle...would've been about 9,67. 110m was, well... :wink:
Anyway, 3rd place at marp in this highly competed game is not bad at all :)

Atlantol:
I was thinking...that maybe it would be best to start at hammer, so that the usual doesn't happen -blowing up the good score at hammer.

You can start at any event at atlantol...after you've finished one round you get usual ceremonies.
I didn't notice any difference between male and female athlete, gamewise. Of course female is more enjoyable to watch...right, hehe.

Also notice the rock-a-billy rebel style hair of male athlete :D

Tommi

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Post by dskys » Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:19 am

I think you'll be proved right re reverse engineering being the only way but I live in hope or something heheh

That's not a bad idea on atlantol - i'd start on the 110 tho ;)
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Post by The TJT » Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:04 pm

First, a great score Adrian!
Ph33r U!
dskys wrote: I've been playing this like mad for about a month (no net access :() and I still suck.... I've had 93k once in about 400 games.
Now 94,3k...Most of the improved score came from good hammer and 110m. You still have "easy" 500 points available for getting over 2.50 at high jump.
After 95K any improvement should be hard.
I don't have a problem speed wise apart from on the sprints.

I get about 1230cms at the end of 100m metres and do 7.9x with a good start

On 110mh I flicker between 11xx and 13xx finishing on about 1340 and get 9.85, that kinda thing
At your latest inp you seem to get consistantly +50cm/sec speed, compared with earlier inps. That's quite much...How did you do it? What kind of technique +setup do you use for running?
I recall you used somekind of joypad? Hard for me to understand getting such speeds using 2 fingers only? Curious minds wants to know.
Whats odd is that on the other speed events (LJ and Jav) I get 1400+ EASILY every time without a perfect take off or throw
Not odd at all. At javelin it's quite easy to get 1400+ ...yet at 100m it's virtually impossible. T&F events have different scale for speed, at different events.

Do you start slower in the beginning of run, as you previously said you'll try?
It does seem that a slower starting speed allows you to run faster over the full 100m - My best in MAME is 7.92 i think with 9.75 on 110hrd
Now at your latest inp you got at 100m 7,79 and 110m 9,75...What are your best times now? How do you average at 100m?
How about your fastest 100m endspeed?

....I better start getting myself in shape soon, just incase :wink:

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Post by dskys » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:14 am

The TJT wrote:First, a great score Adrian!
Ph33r U!
Thanks :)
Now 94,3k...Most of the improved score came from good hammer and 110m. You still have "easy" 500 points available for getting over 2.50 at high jump.
After 95K any improvement should be hard.
I agree, if I could guarantee a 98+m Javelin (on the second throw) that would help and I'd do it every time instead of going for 2 x 1000pts and 1 throw - a few more points there. I need to tidy long jump up too but not much more I can do.

At your latest inp you seem to get consistantly +50cm/sec speed, compared with earlier inps. That's quite much...How did you do it? What kind of technique +setup do you use for running?
I recall you used somekind of joypad? Hard for me to understand getting such speeds using 2 fingers only? Curious minds wants to know.
I run slower. Seriously. Two thumbs/index fingers on joypad, start off alternating quite slow until speed hits about 1050 then speed up til I hit 113x ish - there seems to be a block here unless I slow again to get tight rhythm. Once past this 'block' it's easy to get to 122x and then again there's a block. Here I speed back up as controlled as I can and have had over 1300 end speed once - with some daft time like 8.04 lol.

When running 'fast' I don't really move my right hand just keep it tense on the button with the joypad on the floor (dead arcade like lol) and my left hand vibrates creating like a see-saw motion (so I get free taps from my right thumb/finger) - makes 110h easy to do cos the pad's so small!!
Do you start slower in the beginning of run, as you previously said you'll try?
Yeah, see above :)
Now at your latest inp you got at 100m 7,79 and 110m 9,75...What are your best times now? How do you average at 100m?
How about your fastest 100m endspeed?
Had 7.64 on 100m (18080 pts) and 9.72 on hurdles in the same game. Had 63000 at the start of hammer throw and messed it up lol. Endspeed isn't important, it seems. I have the inp of the above and I don't think it was particularly high. I've had well under 7.9s with an endspeed of 123x - rhythm rhythm rhythm... Have a think about this: what if, when you're using three-finger technique, only ONE press per hand is being counted? You're rhythm would be excellent but effectively quite slow... hence good times.. just a thought.
....I better start getting myself in shape soon, just incase :wink:
The 7.64 game might have been close if I'd have nailed hammer and high jump. Probably within a couple of hundred points ;)
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Post by The TJT » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:02 am

dskys wrote:
I agree, if I could guarantee a 98+m Javelin (on the second throw) that would help and I'd do it every time instead of going for 2 x 1000pts and 1 throw - a few more points there. I need to tidy long jump up too but not much more I can do.
Yep. All I can think of myself having chance on beating my score, is to run 100 m faster than 7,74, compared to my highest scoring game. Yet even 0,15 sec faster would be 450 points more! I kinda nailed all events close max, except 100m was only "good".
I run slower. Seriously. Two thumbs/index fingers on joypad, start off alternating quite slow until speed hits about 1050 then speed up til I hit 113x ish - there seems to be a block here unless I slow again to get tight rhythm. Once past this 'block' it's easy to get to 122x and then again there's a block. Here I speed back up as controlled as I can and have had over 1300 end speed once - with some daft time like 8.04 lol.

When running 'fast' I don't really move my right hand just keep it tense on the button with the joypad on the floor (dead arcade like lol) and my left hand vibrates creating like a see-saw motion (so I get free taps from my right thumb/finger) - makes 110h easy to do cos the pad's so small!!
I have a picture in my mind how you do it, not quite sure if the picture is right...Not very arcade like...but guess I'll have to live with it, as I had with my Marble score being beaten by an analog joypad or keyboard, uh.

Your speeds with this vibrating thingy seem to match very close to my speeds. Your pad must be very sensitive. I need leaf switch buttons!
Hotrod and 7,47...tough task.
Do you start slower in the beginning of run, as you previously said you'll try?
----
Yeah, see above :)
Hmmm...seems to work well. I shall try it too ;)
I'd rather like to run all the way very fast...but that often seems to slowdown times, unless I hit absolutely perfect rhythm. I just tried few getting-back-into-form-games...felt that my speed was good, but rhythm was SO off, got over 8's a bunch of runs. Now, at my best I didn't run over 8's even with a lousy starts...ok, maybe I got 1 per day :) Now my best was 7,82...and that was a lonely trooper :(
Yet got one 9,72 at longjump, again ;)
Had 7.64 on 100m (18080 pts) and 9.72 on hurdles in the same game. Had 63000 at the start of hammer throw and messed it up lol. Endspeed isn't important, it seems. I have the inp of the above and I don't think it was particularly high.
You seem to be there speedwise already. If you had nailed 98 at hammer and 2,50 at highjump...Your score would've been 95600, at that 7,64 100m game. Well same thing has happened to me at my 7,60 s mame runs.
Your endspeed was high at that one(watch the screenshot, dude! lol). It even flashed quickly over 1300.

You're right though. If you run all the way fast, but jam at 1250 or such, that doesn't matter much. It only takes few? hundreds away from end of the run.
Yet, I like to see endspeed as an indicator that how fast is my max running speed. And it does show when you get 1300 at 100m, that you did run fast all the way...rhythm was good and speed didn't stun at any point of the run.
I've had well under 7.9s with an endspeed of 123x - rhythm rhythm rhythm... Have a think about this: what if, when you're using three-finger technique, only ONE press per hand is being counted? You're rhythm would be excellent but effectively quite slow... hence good times.. just a thought.
That might be possible, good thinking...So you are kinda saying that when I mess up the technique I get better times.
I'll have a try, but just running slower with 6f...

When I feel I'm getting my rhythm right, I don't look at the speed meter. I just fully concentrate on the rhytmic rattling sound of the buttons, and making a relaxed but fast run.
When I have problems with rhythm, I do watch the speed meter.
At javelin and longjump I tend to watch speed meter close to the end.

I bet this post sounds, once again, abit nerdish for not-die-hard fans of the game, heh.

On your marks,
TJT
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Post by dskys » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:29 am

It's funny you should mention leaf-switch buttons - that's the only thing putting me off buying or building a dedicated controller, cos I can't seem to find them anywhere... Some people got em off ebay but I've never been there at the right time. The gf won't go for a full cab (even tho a company here will sell me a replica for £395 or so, might have been £495, can't recall..) which is why i'm considering building a panel with a mame pc in it to plug into my tv.

I should pay attention to my inps more!! I was sure I didn't have very good 'spped' on that 7.64 run but anyway, all good :)

It's a PlayStation 2 Dualshock pad thru a USB convertor that I'm using. I STILL use keyboard for Hyper Sports tho (apart from diving on swimming).

As everyone knows, the hardest part of trackfld is getting all 6 events right in one game because even 30points might make all the difference. When I'm recording I don't continue if my run is above 7.85 lol... It's just not woth ten minutes of my life when I know I'm going to get a crap score.

The only real problem I have now is clearing 2.50 high jump consistently. If i didn't go for the bonus I'd get it everytime but I mess up more often than not with only one attempt at it... sometimes as low as .46 hehe . And I've only had a 9.72 long jump once on mame, but that's not too many points more than a 9.63 or so, so... Anyway.

(My gf thinks it's worse than nerd-like btw ;) )

*edit* http://www.retrocactus.com/gamecube/dk_track_med.mov <--- LOL
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Post by The TJT » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:42 pm

dskys wrote: (My gf thinks it's worse than nerd-like btw ;) )
LOL! :roll:



DOUBLE LOL!!!!!

Been there, seen that, ah so many times :P
The reason why T&F buttons break so often. Hope this guy didn't build this "controller" exclusively for T&F. (A black man's game? errrr)
Should make some video about me running 110m using 6f. I'll ask friend to pop by when I get in shape
:P

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