IGBY 2

General discussion on MAME, MARP, or whatever else that doesn't belong in any of the other forums

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Shahbaz
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Re: IGBY 2

Post by Shahbaz » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:23 am

I am not seeing Emux team in IGBY2. Is there? (http://emux.esero.net/)

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by TRB_MetroidTeam » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:38 pm

TRB_MetroidTeam wrote:Hi guys! There are many details... I'll post something later or tomorrow... again, sorry for the lack of time!
TRB
Hi team! Let's try to finish it (I know we are finding a good solution)...

GoogleDocs = "format 1" = F1
Forum pool = "format 2" = F2

1) F2 has 93 games, 13 less than the 106 games in F1.
2) "Main" (or high voted) games does not exist in F2 (confusing players to don't vote, like BBH said, and tried to correct).
3) To be exact, some games were "mixed" in F2... Street Fighter (SF2 and SF3), Golden Axe (GA2_Genesis and GA1_Arcade).
4) Kranser is not registered in MARP_team (until now), but his votes are counted in F2, lol .
5) BBH tried to correct Street Fighter 2 (until now it is NOT in F2 list (1st post)) before the "deadline" (nothing against in the F2 'rules', despite the confusion). My viewpoint is that TJT simply "imposed", without asking other opinions.
6) About changing votes, TJT told "Can't change votes, sorry. It just would not be fair", "Two: it opens the door to mischief. So nope." and "rated their skill 9's and 10's at Street Fighter but didn't vote the game at all on MARP poll", it seems that TJT 'avoiding BBH to change 1 game' really is a manipulation or mischief (if so, SF would be high voted in both lists, fairly imo).
7) It only highlights that "how good" is different than "preference list", true.
8 ) Hanasu explained again his opinion about the "how good" and a "preference list". I agree. BBH seems to agree. It's a competition (and other teams are doing the same), period.
9) (Almost) everyone voted on F1 (how good you are, it's important), I think it's a good fact.
10) Last edition in F2 (GoogleDocs) was 2 days ago, so a deadline was naturally done :) And almost all the players (miss ZID and BeeJay) have numbers there.

Sorry TJT, my friend, but my opinion is that when you arrived (many PMs and FaceBook subjects were already started), then you disliked (I agree) the The_Pro's randomizing idea, then (in the same day) you defined the forum pool without asking opinions about Deadline?, Secretly or not?, 5?10?20? games?, Favourite or HowGood?, Anyone is discussing, yet?, etc. The main issue (again, in my opinion) is the way you "imposed" some stuffs, and "ignored" others. Nothing personal, sorry!

Note: I agree with deadline of June 26th, but not exactly with that time, for example (and I don't know about other members). By the way, what is 18:00 CET? We are international here, so "GMT-N" (or UTC-N) should be 'understandable'. And Shahbaz posted some minutes after your post, then it was simply 'ignored'. (Both: Shahbaz's Rygar and BBH's SF2 should affect results).

Note: About the "Anyone is discussing, yet?" It was posted that most players were in FaceBook group, I PMed *everyone* asking if you are in FaceBook and about the group. Also, The_Pro told about FB in June20th ("There's various picks in PMs and facebook too (I assume) so it's getting to be complex."), etc.

And about the "leader" that BBH asked to TJT, c'mon everyone! I don't consider anyone here, in fact.
According to the rolling of the posts, I consider that we "agreed" that we would put suggestions and ideas in the groups, then discuss. Nobody said in the beginning: "Let's vote to a leader?". So, I agree that we can't decide much stuffs without asking to many of the members. That's it.
And about the format F1 vs F2, I found in the discussions that TJT was the only that stated his preference in F2 (preference list) instead of F1 (how good). Anyway, TJT wrote that is ok with F1 format: "We need some clarity on this. If people think google doc is the way to move on I'm ok-ish with that, although I'd personally prefer keeping the voting at MARP. TRB, Wolf?".

And trying to conclude it... hmmm... my suggestions are:

I. Use F1 (HowGood/GoogleDocs);
II. Include BeeJay and Shahbaz votes there (10 to 1)
III. Our 3rd and 4th are tied in GoogleDocs (F1), but "Game3" has 4x "10" and "Game4" has 1x "10". Also "Game3" is one of the F2 (Preference List), so it's the best! ;).
IV. If it's really only 3 games each team, we will have TWO games from F1 format and ONE game from F2 format (too). Good, no?
V. I think we have not enough free time to vote stuffs again. So, using the suggestions above we are using a complete list of games and strenghts, and it would reduce our "viewpoints divergence" :)

Let's forget the "http://replay.marpirc.net/r/clowns" stuff, "the leader" stuff, etc... Go go go MARP_Team!!!
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Re: IGBY 2

Post by The TJT » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:24 pm

TRB...
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Re: IGBY 2

Post by BBH » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:39 am

Look, at this point the picks should have been submitted to Wolf anyway (...right?), it's really too late to change things. What's done is done, I accept that.

The problem is discussion was all over the place - in this thread, in private PM's that not everyone was on the list for, and on a facebook group apparently. I didn't like that either, and wanted to keep things public since other teams had been doing the same and it felt right to keep things here as a show of good faith. Way too many games getting nominated, too many games to pick from. I don't fault Tommi for taking initiative in starting a poll for people to vote on nominated games. Things had to be done to officially get picks in as a group.

What I didn't like was the decision made on "no revotes" was done without allowing any kind of discussion on it. Yes, there was much potential in abuse if allowing people to change their votes, especially if it was done multiple times (no way it should be allowed more than once). But I felt rushed to get my votes out because of that early deadline, which then ended up being extended. Had I been given more time in the first place, I would have submitted a different list. Either way, we're not voting for politicans here - we're trying to determine what the strongest games for our team are. If new information is brought to the table that we have a lot of strong players in a certain game that haven't spoke up yet, why wouldn't it be advantageous for the team if 5 strong players for a game decide to vote on something they're all good at? And what if someone puts their votes down early, and the next day two people sign up for the team that happen to be strong at a game the other person is also good at, but didn't vote for (because again, there were a LOT of nominated games)? I suppose the lesson is, don't vote until the last minute.

I mean yeah in the end it doesn't matter, changing my vote for SF2 wouldn't have put it in anyway, and some strong SF2 players on this team won't be able to take advantage of it being in the tournament. Oh well, it happens.

I don't intentionally vote for "bad" games that I'm strong at to make other teams suffer because they're awful. I nominated Shock Troopers because it's one of my favorite games of all time and I knew I'll be able to guarantee getting 1st place on it. I wasn't sure if it would get supported here but apparently it has. If you think it's a bad game, I'd love to know the reasons why. Save the hostility for teams like DKF, that reportedly voted in the most unfun romhack to ever exist, Donkey Kong II.

edit: by the way, I think the RU team is nominating Turbo Outrun too, so um...

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by Shahbaz » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:26 am

Yes why not TRB... I will do my best for Rygar/Chelnov. And according to BBH should give to chance to the player to play his favorite game as he can give a better result than other games. So we must decide the particular / favorite games for our Team Players BBH, TRB, Innuendo, Colmanpaolo, dan etc... By the way i dont know i will be with which 10 players because there are too many players now in marp team.

And pls dont mind, the TG is giving too much rewards if his players win the IGBY2 (2015). (http://www.twingalaxies.com/content.php ... s!-(IGBY2) ).

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by OMG Kreygasm » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:03 am

So what games did we submit? LOL.

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by Zhorik » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:54 pm

I don't think we've submitted a list yet. We've got to submit one today. There was additional conversation on the Facebook group last night in favor of selecting SF2 and possibly Twin Cobra, but it's impossible to reach a decision on any of this when we don't have a defined process, don't have a Team Captain that can make executive decisions, are having half of our conversations on Facebook and half on the forums and not all players are on both, and we're out of time to make a decision.

I'm very skeptical that we have time to do any more voting before submitting a list. For better or worse, I'm aligned with BBH that it's really too late to change things and what's done is done. The tournament starts in about 36 hours.

Wolfman24, previously had picked BBH and I as "player reps" for IGBY2 since we'd both been involved in prior team tournaments he's run. This doesn't make us "captains", but we are "points of contact" for the MARP team. I'm planning to submit to Wolfman24 the games from TJT's voting results excel sheet (Shock Troopers, Time Pilot 84, Turbo Outrun) later today. If anybody has a problem with that and can offer a method that actually has a chance of letting us reach a clear decision for different games today, please post it here.

Our game selection process has clearly been disorganized, and I apologize for not doing more to try to help clearly define it before. Please keep in mind our selections are only 3 games out of what will probably be 24-30 games. While the 3 games selected may not be our absolutely strongest 3 games, we should still do well on them, we have a very strong team, and there will be plenty of other games for everybody to play.

-George

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by hanasu » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:45 pm

Another team has selected Turbo Outrun. If we want to pick the games our players are best at, SF2 or Twin Cobra has to be our alternate choice. We could easily have three or more people in the top 5 of those games.

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by OMG Kreygasm » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:11 pm

hanasu wrote:Another team has selected Turbo Outrun. If we want to pick the games our players are best at, SF2 or Twin Cobra has to be our alternate choice. We could easily have three or more people in the top 5 of those games.
Wanna vote on it? :D

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by TRB_MetroidTeam » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:31 pm

Zhorik wrote:If anybody has a problem with that and can offer a method that actually has a chance of letting us reach a clear decision for different games today, please post it here.
Hi everyone!

Proposal... following the line some guys posted in FB:

1) Shock Troopers
2) Street Fighter II
3) Twin Cobra
--------------------
4) Golden Axe (no magic)
5) Time Pilot 84
6) Xevious
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Re: IGBY 2

Post by Zhorik » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:35 pm

I'm ok with dropping Turbo Outrun and switching that choice for another game. We'd need to pick which game that is though. We also need to definitely decide at least one alternate, and preferably three, to include on the list of games we send in.

Leaders from Google spreadsheet were: SF2, Golden Axe, Twin Cobra, Jungle King/Xevious, Black Widow
Leaders from Facebook discussions have been: SF2, Twin Cobra, Golden Axe
Leaders from TJT's vote spreadsheet were: Golden Axe, Twin Cobra, Black Widow and Rygar.

If we leave on Shock Troopers and Time Pilot '84 from the earlier voting, I'd recommend we swap Turbo Outrun for SF2, and list Twin Cobra, Golden Axe and Black Widow as our alternates.

Also, since there is a lot of support for SF2 can we decide exactly which version of SF2 we would pick?

-George

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by TRB_MetroidTeam » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:06 pm

Zhorik, if it's the case, your suggestion would be:

1) Shock Troopers
2) Time Pilot 84
3) Street Fighter II
--------------------
4) Twin Cobra
5) Golden Axe (no magic)
7) Black Widow

right?
If it's fine to some members, it's ok for me.
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Re: IGBY 2

Post by Zhorik » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:12 pm

TRB_MetroidTeam wrote:Zhorik, if it's the case, your suggestion would be:

1) Shock Troopers
2) Time Pilot 84
3) Street Fighter II
--------------------
4) Twin Cobra
5) Golden Axe (no magic)
6) Black Widow

right?
If it's fine to some members, it's ok for me.
Correct. Note that every other team has already submitted their game lists so we have an obligation to send our picks in very soon.

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by JustJJ » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:48 pm

Good! I believe i can play most of games of this list ^_^ Specially Street fighter2 and Golden Axe (no magic) ^_^

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Re: IGBY 2

Post by INNUENDO » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:10 pm

I´d rather Twin Cobra and Golden Axe (no magic), but the first option is good.
Last edited by INNUENDO on Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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