Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

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GHEMANT
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Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

After 2 years....

Please Marp staff, check with all software possible and remove the actual top score for Golden Axe (goldnaxe3) 629,5 pts by Paulo Valmir. This score is played with cheat / manipulation with probably the same method (or similar) of Pac. I'm tired to see these cheaters.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by BBH »

We HAVE looked at it. If he cheated in the same manner as PAC, it does not have the same telltale signs that were in PAC's inps. The difference of course is the missing gaps of time between recording creation and end, which is indeed very suspicious but not 100% provable. He has ignored all allegations which is certainly not a good sign either, but again, action will not be taken unless we're 100% certain.

If you have some way to prove it that we overlooked, please share it with us.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by Zhorik »

GHEMANT, can you please give more specific details about specific actions in the gameplay or sections of the gameplay which you think are suspicious? I suspect you've done some analysis like that already, but if you could share it here it would both help the rest of the community understand why you are very suspicious of the score and also help us with analysis of the replay.

Thanks,
George
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

I start to explain the problem, I will be more specific in the next days. Golden Axe perfect score is 640,5 (without triple KO). Without the dangerous strategy of blue dragon sacrifice in last stage the score became 634,5. This run would be 634,5 points, but for a timing imperfection in stage 4 the final score is only 629,5 (5 points missing, Valmir has not noticed this, otherwise he could have corrected the mistake with save state). I’m sure this replay is played 100% with save state.

Says BBH, the problem is “the difference of course is the missing gaps of time between recording creation and end”. Until Golden Axe score under 500,0 points, all Valmir’s replay was regular. After 500,0 point appear this strange problem with start time and end time that doesn’t correspond to the duration of replay. In the same period Valmir was disqualified from a tournament in Marp for the same reason.

The cheating method is not the same of Pac, but similar, so is difficult to discover. Unfortunately the gameplay of this game is impossible to understand if you use save state or not (The Twin Cobra replay from Pac was easy understand).
He has ignored all allegations which is certainly not a good sign either
All cheaters will never admit that he cheated.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by destructor »

Maybe create wolf version with removed save states code? For save states training players can use regular mame.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by RAX »

I quote a two years old PM from me to editors, when I was KO coordinator
RAX wrote:To MARP editors and K11 coordinators)

About Paulo Valmir.

During KO check operations we found that Paulo Valmir's inps were strange. The file modification time was not good, according to the start time (stored into the inp) and the framecount&framerate.
Normally the difference should be a precise amount of hours, due to the timezone&daylight-time of the player. Some minor differences of few seconds are good anyway, due to filesystem or slower average speed.
His times were all bad, and always with a different offset.

So I tried to perform the same check in his older inps, and noticed that older inps are good in this aspect. Most of them have a -3 -4 -5 hours correction, that fits with Brazil fuse and daylight-time correction.
I did not check them all, but I couldn't find wrong things until september 2013
From that moment many inps have this odd aspect, expecially tournament's inps and difficult games inps. Using Wolf106 recordings I could also figure out that his PC should not be so old to have 100% speed problems, he has a 3GHz processor now, but he showed speed problems in games that should not have an heavy emulation.


My opinion is that he found some way to save/reload a recording WolfMAME.
Some inps subsequent to september 2013 have a good time difference, for example a SF2 clone (game he is very good in) and Power Drift, that has a heavy emulation.

So the situation in my opinion is this: he started as a fair player, but he found a way to cheat wolfmame and decided to ease his work. I guess the first case was 559 in Goldenaxe, he was playing correctly in GA & clones until 22/sep/2013, scoring 485 (that is high but not at record level) and then he showed 559, that has odd times, IMO because he wasn't able to perform a perfect play.
I guess the cheating requests a high PC power, so that sometimes he can't do that with 100% emulation speed.
According to this diagnosis he did that in Timetrial, T13, K11, Golden Axe WR, and so on. For sure from october 2013.


We asked for explanation in KO topic and PM, but he did not answer.


I ask for an opinion from you, and request a deeper test on his recordings: I think we should DQ every odd inp from him, and start working for a improvement to WolfMAME to try to reduce the weakness, if it's possible.

To Zhorik: these are the first things I wrote to present the problem. Although my findings seemed serious they weren't considered a sure proof.
Maybe after PAC's case we can review this.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by Novice »

PAC-MAN wrote: I can prove all my records with INPS, but you can´t prove the Japanese ones with any video or inps . We have no other choice to believe what the Japanese say, and we all know that many of them are counterfeiters and cheaters (and video fakers too). And I don´t believe in scores of Japanese referees, they aren't legit. I think western gamers are better ( americans and europeans) and they play without cheating . Greetings.
PAC-BAN failed again.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by Shahbaz »

Novice wrote:
PAC-MAN wrote: I think western gamers are better ( americans and europeans) and they play without cheating . Greetings.
PAC-BAN failed again.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Me and Japanese are ASIAN. Its mean he does not believe in my scores too. :(
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

News? Please take a decision. At least change in green (unconfirmed) the golden axe scores above 500 points.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

Shahbaz wrote:
Me and Japanese are ASIAN. Its mean he does not believe in my scores too. :(
In the arcade hi-score world "asian" means only Japan, China and Korea. It is a reference to the method of play, study / investigation pattern, and competitiveness in that community. All other is considered "western".
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by Novice »

GHEMANT wrote: In the arcade hi-score world "asian" means only Japan, China and Korea. It is a reference to the method of play, study / investigation pattern, and competitiveness in that community. All other is considered "western".
[/quote]

I donot know any highscore from china.
important matter is not weastern or not.
but fair or not.
but accept the truth or not.
but stupid or not.

most of marpers living the same world.

pac... ric..... virtual...


are veryfew exceptions.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by BeeJay »

GHEMANT wrote:
Shahbaz wrote:
Me and Japanese are ASIAN. Its mean he does not believe in my scores too. :(
In the arcade hi-score world "asian" means only Japan, China and Korea. It is a reference to the method of play, study / investigation pattern, and competitiveness in that community. All other is considered "western".
So, somebody from India/Thailand/Laos/Burma(Myanmar)/Vietnam/Indonesia/etc would be considered 'western'.... interesting..... ;) :lol:
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

I was registered for long time in a China community. Some players in China have some scores better of top Japan. Exemple: Strikers 1945 (AC), Strikers 1945 II (AC and MAME), Strikers 1945 Plus (ac), some recent Cave games (AC), Snow Bros (8,000,000 MAME), Knight of the Round (MAME without code adress cheat), Cadillacs (MAME). The problem is the absence of a hi-score database.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by GHEMANT »

BeeJay wrote: So, somebody from India/Thailand/Laos/Burma(Myanmar)/Vietnam/Indonesia/etc would be considered 'western'.... interesting..... ;) :lol:
Yes, because is not a matter of geography, but is a problem of “score concept / study / investigation” about the score system.
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Re: Request to remove a fake score in Marp database

Post by PG3 »

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Last edited by PG3 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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