Hello all - I knew my post would get a few replies ! As has been the case in the past (see
viewtopic.php?t=9801, post #7), JG is eager to hop on me, and assume the worst when I write matter-of-fact commentary, rather than the opposite (as I prefer to do). DBH, as always, is reasonable and intelligent (OK, JG, before you again make assumptions, I wasn't saying that you
weren't, necessarily; I'll let forum readers judge that for themselves...).
JG, I may appear outspoken, but, I am always merely matter-of-fact, tho that can come across rudely at times, I realize. You were eager to quote me on the 'decimation' part, where one could say that I appear pompous, but, you don't denote my acknowledgment that my current MAME CC 'record' is "terrible". I call a spade a spade, and,
if I had good control of the game, I'd post a great score, and, yes, decimate my 613K score, Donald's score,
and Donut's score. Of course, I have to compare apples to apples, and, the aforementioned two players have similar conditions of play as I had, I would presume, so their scores are fine on that basis (actually, Donut's are pretty extraordinary). My point was that the actual MARP highs on the different CC roms are so-so scores, compared to the arcade; what is not so-so, however, is the
play that produced the scores - it's fabulous, given the limitations of the controls. I should have made this inference into a more clear point, I'll admit.
JG, as I said, I
can't decimate, without decent controls, or overflow problems. That much I made clear. I do beat my chest - but only when I can back it up !! Come to Funspot (as I invited you previously) and / or California Extreme (this coming weekend), and I'll gladly shake your hand, show you what I can do in the coin-op world, and look at your mastery of (among other titles, no doubt), Joust. Fair enough ??
destructor: I think you'll be waiting a long time, until the control issues are resolved. Believe me, you and JG may think I'm one non-humble bastard, but, as many gamers will tell you that I've told them, I am decidedly clustered
below the middle of the pack, when it comes to decent gamers playing an array of titles. I'm more of a specialist, and claim nothing else.
Weehawk: Again, thanks for your generous and ingenious idea of offering these weekly contests. Hats off ! Yes, I pursued getting decent control on CC using: all roms, a myriad of MAME versions, changing speed and sensitivity settings, trying 5+ mice and 3+ trak-balls... You get the idea. The problem is, I need instant stops / starts, and super-fast acceleration and deceleration. For a feel for this situation, go to my web site's CC page (John lists it in his starting post on this thread), and choose the last option. Look at the video of the play, and then play CC on
any level, and try to get near the control, precision, speed, etc... There's no way. You can get away with this issue on Centipede / Millipede (tho you can't do as much as you'd like, as Don alludes to), and you can also tolerate it on Marble Madness (since you primarily go in only one direction). But, CC is unforgiving, at least in world-class (850K plus) games. It's why the Star Wars scores suck too. Again, the play doesn't suck, since you're stuck with shitty controls, compared to the arcade, but the scores suck, compared to the arcades (a comparison which I feel one
must do, since so many MARP scores approach, or even beat, their arcade counterparts).
Beating Frank's score via MAME is impossible, for so many reasons. As Don correctly states (thanks for carefully reading my web site !!), part of the reason is that you cannot use the continue feature of the game on MARP. Now, if you look at my web site, and are a CC genius, you'll find my theoretical maximums that I took (literally) around a total of 20 hours to calculate (yes, I counted each and every gem on each and every screen, all 37 (!!!), not to mention the other point counts). OK, I had a lot of time on my hands in the mid-80's !! Anyway, I calculated that the max at the end of level 2, as Frank played it, was 163,480 points. BUT, we can't continue, and use the warp to level 2 feature. We must do a single game, and can therefore only warp to level three, using the spot at the back left of the first screen (you should skip level 1, because the points there are so low, you'd have a net loss if you played it straight through, versus warping to 3, which awards 140,000 points). Now, by my numbers, not being able to play Frank's way loses you 23,480 points. Subtracting this from his 910,722 (which, keep in mind, is still total max, from a player at his peak, on a perfect controller arcade machine) gets a comparative score of 887,242 points, which, is quite far from 910K. Wait - there's still another variable - time bonus. The game awards time bonus, assuming your game takes less than (approximately) 13 minutes. Here's an exclusive for you: Frank never got a time bonus on a 'good' level 2-up game, tho he did get a small one once on a game that was poor in score. Still, by skipping level 2, you'd gain around 50 seconds or so, and get around 12,000 in time bonus, assuming the rest of your game was fast enough (no guarantee). Still, this total is just shy of 900K, and
well below Frank's 910K. In any case, the money is safe, and, with the hit you take for missing the level 2 points, plus the fact that getting more than a few gemeaters on higher levels is basically impossible on MAME, over 830K would pretty much be a miracle. Still, I'll continue to try, off-and-on, as I have the last few years...
Yes, I've heard about rigged controls, and I love it ! Anything to help a player (fairly) get good MAME scores rules ! But, again, I worry that even the CC trak-ball would have an input speed limitation, making the rigging useless. Sigh...
DBH: Indeed, as I told JG, I took a bit of artistic license in saying I could beat you, since I was only referring to me playing the arcade version - not a fair comparison, but, playing with one's foot isn't fair either ! As you point out, you have beaten me both ways (1/1 on, and 8/1 up) in our 'Dr. Scholl's shootout' ! Maybe we can do it again, and entertain the CE crowd, if you're going ! Anyway, I don't think I could ever top your 590, but I'm sure I could beat you from 1/1 up, if I had a high perch to sit on...
Indeed, I think 900K on one credit, considering time bonus, from a fast game, is possible, but probably more difficult than Frank's 910K, because now you not only have to totally max the game, and have all 6 lives going at the end of the game, but you also have to do all of that while playing fast !!! Talk about high-pressure... On the arcade version, I'd say it's a 1 in 10,000 chance, from a world-class player at their peak. On MAME... totally impossible. John, I may offer a bounty myself for MAME, maybe something like $1 per every 1000 points over 800K, just to see what happens...
Final thots; on the TG settings issue, yes, CC is about the
only game where a game 'continue' is allowed. Why ? Because the designer, Franz X. Lanzinger (a personal friend of mine) designed it to be that way in order to establish the optimal level to warp up to. It sucked in the arcade, since I'd be out an extra token, but, since I bought the actual arcade game in 1986, I didn't much care, then... And, no, no one (not even me, and I'm anal-retentive - just look at the detail on my site !) tracks the max score on a CC single-credit game, just like no one (but me) tracks the differentiation between a game warping to level 8 (record is 902,265, by Frank), and level 2 (the infamous 910,722 score, which incidentally is about the only arcade gaming achievement that I'll ever classify as a masterpiece, tho Phil Britt's Paperboy wr, David Palmer's Star Wars wr, and some of Hisa Chan's stuff almost qualifies !). It's just all lumped together, and because of the 'hit' you take on points by playing a single-credit, that score would never stack up to the others, and therefore, isn't tracked (or, even played, on the arcade version). As a matter of fact, I don't even think Frank or I ever cared to try to see what we could do on a single-credit. Maybe
one day, when I have time... - Mark Alpiger / MDA / MDARULZ