Camel try Expert Leeching

[Francois Daniel]

Anyway.. let the poll decide!

Cheers

Yes and the poll is finished now.

Besides, what are the conditions for acceptations of a poll ? And how take place the new rules, etc. ?

Francois

[piot]

people will rape leech to 0 timer.. and then pray they win the Lottery chance for another 20 seconds or so..

Are 20 seconds enough to reach next level ? I'm not sure even if there are many time bonus along the last step of the round.

[piot]

Also.. it is not as easy as you think to get good points at the bumpers. Try it and you will see how hard it is to just "stay there and leech"

Well, I tried once to use bumpers leech. Even if It was the first time the score grew so quickly that I beat my own best score (I've never post the score and I won't). I can imagine how it can be easy after one or two attempts.

But what's the meaning of the discussion ? FD launched a poll and the votes clearly show that no one accepts the bumpers leech. What we have to do is to respect this vote (or it'll mean that votes have no senses) and remove or at least lower the scores using the bumpers leech.

[QRS]

Well, like I said before... you have to consider the timebonus too! It is very important!

We are all waiting for some of the editors to set a new rule for this, so please be patient.

[piot]

you have to consider the timebonus too!

Are U talking about the gamble when you have less than 10 seconds remaining or the one when you're not able to reach finish line ?

[QRS]

No I´m talking about the ordinary time bonus that racks up from level to level (like Marble madness) in the end you get a lot of scores from that like 6 times the timebonus after level 6 and 10 times the time bonus collected on stage 10 etc.. if you use 30 seconds on stage 2 you might endup losing A LOT of points at the end of stage 10 (example)

The only leech/trick I have found so far that disturb that balance is the leeching spot on stage 5.

[Chad]

I'll make the special rules change, but i want a policy to put there to say what happens to games that aren't compelted but DO leech. Do we just zereo them or adjust the score somehow?

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

[LN2]

well, given that it seems the rule that passed is to allow that leech but only if you complete the game then yes....if they don't complete it then it's an illegal play and should be zeroed.

The person can easily replay it and finish. You do have to sacrifice a bit in score to actually finish versus staying at that leech spot until the game is over.

I haven't worked my way to the expert course yet. I just started playing this game a couple nights ago after reading the thread. It's a cool game. I already have new records for the training one for a couple of the versions...will submit later...need to test playback.

I'm working on beginner course now....getting up around 270k...think with a little more play can get 300+ on that one.

[Chad]

I don't like zeroing the whole recording if there is a small bit of leeching. how about if they don't complete we go back to the score of the last maze completed that did not leech?

And we need a leech definition, here's a start? Leeching will be declared when the player does not make forward progress in lieu of getting points for more than 1 second of game time.

[Francois Daniel]

I don't like zeroing the whole recording if there is a small bit of leeching. how about if they don't complete we go back to the score of the last maze completed that did not leech?

And we need a leech definition, here's a start? Leeching will be declared when the player does not make forward progress in lieu of getting points for more than 1 second of game time.

Note that the leechiing spot is not in the right way for complete the level. If someone enter in the spot, it's with intention to leech.

Francois

[LN2]

And we need a leech definition, here's a start? Leeching will be declared when the player does not make forward progress in lieu of getting points for more than 1 second of game time.

I'm a little confused Chad.....the vote was leeching is allowed as long as the player finishes the game.

Are you now making some criteria for those that don't finish the game to decide if they were leeching or not? I think it will be totally obvious or they won't have anywhere near the top score.

There is a very easy way this whole thing can been handled in the scoring rules with this decision.

Just add points to the final score if you complete it.
That means all that complete the game are guaranteed to have a score higher than anyone that doesn't complete the game yet leeches like crazy. How much would need to be added to accomplish this? I have now played tha game at training and beginner courses but not the expert yet. I'll likely get into playing that later tonight so I'll finally get to see what that leeching spot is all about and just how bad it is.

I have beat the current MARP scores for training and beginner courses so far.
Trying to play the inps in virtualpc on my mac and a couple play fine the first world but then "tilt". The others just "tilt" right at the beginning. They playback fine in macmame though. I'm trying to figure out a way like perhaps reducing the analog sensitivity for the key press might help?

It's odd a couple do play 1 world though...it means the inp is compatible...cuz that world plays out just fine and results in same score after it. but then the tilt thing. I still submit but was hoping these babies would be confirmable by pcmame confirmers.

[Francois Daniel]

[There is a very easy way this whole thing can been handled in the scoring rules with this decision.

Just add points to the final score if you complete it.

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Its an idea, and the idea for calculate points with the total time at the end of game is good too Why not.

Francois

[Chad]

one thing i learned with games is that NOTHING is obvious :) there's always a condition/loophole/workaround that can be introduced so it's nice to have clearly defined rules if we are going to make them. I'm thinking about this instance, there's some unknown huge non leeching points, then they leech to the sky with the last maze and don't finish, they should get the points for the previous levels, but not the level leeched...

adding points to the completed game would solve the problem but that really needs another vote, since it complicates the scoring system which isn't necesary if you have leeching rules (which is what this vote was about).

[LN2]

yea but that big leech in world 5 that vote was on is in the middle of that course....it has 8 worlds I think.

I say keep it simple. I disagree with the above to add points based on total time. I had semi-jokingly said just screw the game score and assign a score based on total time but that really takes away from the game and the art/skill of crushing the blocks in series and efficiently. There are skills to scoring that do also occupy time like crushing the blocks etc. You could always skip many of those and decrease the total time...but have less points overall...yet that isn't "leeching" and is certainly a part of the game as designed.

I was only talking about having a big enough bonus points for finishing that would pretty much auto-enforce the requirement to finish if you are going to leech. Confirmers wouldn't even need to worry about it then, cuz anyone that doesn't finish would have a score low enough it really wouldn't matter compared to those that did finish.

I think the absolute easiest thing based on the vote above is to simply state if you leech off bumpers in a course in cameltry and don't finish the entire set of worlds/courses, then your score will be zeroed out. That short and sweet and takes care of it.

That's really the only leeching we are talking about to start with...cuz the bumpers are a never-ending supply of leech points. The blocks you crush etc. are limited so can't really be leeching. I think a couple bumper hits here and there are fine in the act of completing the world...if they happen to not finish the entire course.

I think any "gray-area" plays won't matter cuz their score will be low enough we aren't talking about the top scores then or many MARP points.

I'm gonna finally play this expert course tonight right now so will have a better idea for what is going on.

[Francois Daniel]

I say keep it simple. I disagree with the above to add points based on total time. I had semi-jokingly said just screw the game score and assign a score based on total time but that really takes away from the game and the art/skill of crushing the blocks in series and efficiently. There are skills to scoring that do also occupy time like crushing the blocks etc. You could always skip many of those and decrease the total time...but have less points overall...yet that isn't "leeching" and is certainly a part of the game as designed.
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Me too, I dont like change a scoring system. And, it's exact the way of Camel Try is an average between points gain with bumper or crussing blocks, and time for reaching goal. So, we can't accept a system based on the time alone.

Francois