Xain'D Sleena

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:12 pm

actually, given for any score beyond 80k the last 2 options are essentially the same, it has 2/3rds of the vote currently which is enough.

Whether you implement it strictly as 5 lives or 3 start and extra at 20k and 80k really doesn't matter IMHO cuz as stated before a score less than 80k really won't give you anything in MARP leaderboard points.

I have not voted yet myself.

if I read the above correctly, are you saying the players with the top scores for this game actually required at least 8 lives to complete the game, not wasting any on leeching?

I guess in a way having only 5 lives then makes how far you can get in the game on those 5 lives more valuable. Games were a bunch can finish the game always end up having leeching issues for games of this type where enemies keep reappearing if you don't make forward progress.

MrBunny · Post by **MrBunny** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:11 am

Yes, playing a perfect game up until the last level, a good player will still probably lose 5 lives finishing the last stage on SolarWar, which is the hardest of the clones... a touch from an enemy takes half of the life meter, and a hit from an off-screen bullet will bounce you into an enemy very often.

Also, once one death occurs on the last planet, you have the crappy weapon with usually no chance of picking up an upgrade.

Also there are one-touch deaths throughout the space areas which often come about from bad collision detection. In solarwar, the space station on stage 3 is extremely tough, and might take me 4 or 5 men at times.

I find it extremely strange that someone who has had the number one spot due to extreme leeching is now taking the opposite road and saying that leeching must have strict rules which totally restrict an honest effort at finishing the game. No one else has leeched!

The only disagreement was that davil thought that I shouldn't be able to maximize points, then die by timer, and maximize points before moving on. I agree with him and change my method, now we play by never letting timer run out on any area. So vote for 20, 70, every 70 and d-q that leeching score by destructor.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:21 am

On arcade machine I finish xsleena on difficulty hardest (default = easy!) with 20k,80k bonus life only. Finish game on easy difficulty isn't hard.
Bad collision detection in space? Yes I had from this problems at the beginning. But a bit training and problem disappeared.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:53 am

I play today on xsleena. With no problems destroy Big Ship. But I have problems with red planet

I continue and go to last stage. Finish it with 3 lives. No record

... maybe tommorow.

MrBunny · Post by **MrBunny** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:16 pm

If someone can beat the game in five lives does that necessitate a special rule?

What if someone can beat a game in one life? How about every other game where an expert can beat the game in one life?

Why does this game need special rules? Still no convincing reasons given.

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:20 am

mrbunny, if many can finish the game with only 5 lives or less, then that sort of defeats the case of needing an extra man every 70k which then regardless of the vote will allow for some level of leeching with the extra men left.

Think of it the opposite way....give everyone 256 men. Now everyone can finish the game...high scores mean little for it.

...so making it 5 men only makes it tougher to complete....yet some will still complete it. That's good IMHO. It separates the men from the boys IMHO. It also reduces the amount of leeching that can be done. With only 5 lives, most likely won't have a life to spare earlier to leech versus hanging onto all lives for the final to try and complete the game.
If no one could complete the game on 5 men or less then I would have leaned more toward having an extra man every 70k.

Does this game give a bonus for completion? If not, then perhaps a final bonus should be added so those not finishing yet leeching some can't possibly beat the score of those completing it.

MrBunny · Post by **MrBunny** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:37 am

Waitaminute, I said "does it necessitate a special rule?" as well as "_if_ someone can finish it in five lives". you should still be leaning toward every 70k.

Also, destructor is ignoring the point of my last post, that the clone solarwar is more difficult and has worse collisions and greater damage per hit. He is talking about xsleena in 3 men, which is easier, and again, my question is "why make a special rule just because an expert player can accomplish it?"

that would be like saying, "every game gets a life limit equal to what the world's best can finish it."

do you get my point now?

And yes, there is a big 500k bonus for finishing.

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:33 am

MrBunny wrote:that would be like saying, "every game gets a life limit equal to what the world's best can finish it."

no...not at all...but if many are finishing the game...and thus using their extra men to leech more points to get the high score, then something is lost there. To just reduce and get rid of those extra lives at least partially addresses the problem. it potentially could still be a problem if you have a player that can finish the game on 1 or 2 men so then still has a few men to leech with in the game.

Yes, some that could complete it previously might not be able to do so with only 5 lives. That might be motivation for them to play it and improve so they can finish on 5 lives.

Think of the opposite...very few can finish games...so do we use settings allowing for more lives so more can possibly finish? nope.

MARP still has tons of games where the score differences are mainly from leeching differences....mainly for games with a definite ending.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:27 am

MrBunny wrote: Also, destructor is ignoring the point of my last post, that the clone solarwar is more difficult and has worse collisions and greater damage per hit.

I will test it today.

---------------------------
AFTER TEST

It's harder version but it's identical difficulty to arcade machine in my city. Very fun

I love this version

I have some problems on some planets but I need more training.
Spaces finish with no problem. Big Ship detroyed with 1 life.
Last planet finish with 3 lives

I test collisions and damage per hit.
It's IDENTICAL to xsleena

If you don't believe then check.

What know worse collisions MrBunny?
One difference in space is: enemy bullets are bit faster.

I think MrBunny that you can finish Xain'd Sleena or Solar Warrior with 5 lives only. If you will choose game for Time Trial round 2 then choose Solar Warrior or Xain'd Sleena with 20k 80k bonus life

For Solar Warrior there is needed more time for training.

-------------------------------------------

Now, I delete my score 9999990 (backup it to my hard disk) and submit on MARP score with bonus life 20k 80k only. 3 very stupid lost and no maximize points. Only for demonstration. After training now I say: I can finish xsleena and Solar Warrior with 1 life

DaviL · Post by **DaviL** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:02 pm

Solar warrior is more difficult yes. Is there where the big ship can kill you without reason, non xain'D Sleena, sorry.
I try 2 time yesterday (solaewarrior and xain), go at the last space battle before iron planet, but lose all 2 time my 3 lives here (really strange)..
Will try saturday.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:31 pm

If you DaviL set last planet to red or blue(sea) then space will be short.

--------------------------------

Yeah. I finish Xain'd Sleena bootleg with 1 life almost. I lost 1 life by suicide because I didn't look in monitor

It's submited to MARP.

DaviL · Post by **DaviL** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:24 pm

Good job destructor
I will try tomorrow

Francois Daniel · Post by **Francois Daniel** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:05 pm

Hi all

I've just a question, why we don't make as gng (I mean Ghosts'n Goblins ^^) ?

Leech allowed only once by life, player must quit the area of leech before the time limit... And if he die before the time limit he can't make the leech again. And as the game have an ending (not the case of gng), we haven't need life limit.

Francois

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:51 am

Francois Daniel wrote:Hi all

I've just a question, why we don't make as gng (I mean Ghosts'n Goblins ^^) ?

Leech allowed only once by life, player must quit the area of leech before the time limit... And if he die before the time limit he can't make the leech again. And as the game have an ending (not the case of gng), we haven't need life limit.

Francois

Life limit in xsleena is good choice. When I play on arcade machine with life limit and next I play on MAME with lives at every 70k game was boring for me and not interesting and too easy. With life limit is impossible to get 99999990 with my leeching method. For best players it's challenge: leech 4 lives on leeching point and next finish game with 1 life! Almost identical situation how in Toki.

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I don't know too much about pools but I think that special rules must be edited for xsleena and old recordings deleted.

DaviL · Post by **DaviL** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:53 pm

I try, and finish the game is easy. The only problem is the last planet: I can finish it with no deaths (but is very difficult), but can also finish loosing 2 life. Is only lucky. You must be not the best but the must lucky man to leeching 4 lives and finish it with 1 only...
So I agree with the Francois for the leeching situation: if you dead you can leech again.

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