Gambling games, leaderboard points

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

Moderator: BBH

Archive gambling games?

Poll ended at Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:27 pm

Yes, archive gambling games
9
69%
No, do not archive gambling games
4
31%
 
Total votes: 13

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The TJT
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by The TJT » Thu May 06, 2010 5:57 am

My opinion is that default leaderboard should be as it is now, but without gambling games, and this change should be implemented asap.

The grouping method Phil referred to could be a bonus feature to the leaderboard, a cherry on top.

I think we could get to "clone wars"(or Mahjong wars, ouch :) in another discussion.

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GNU
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by GNU » Thu May 06, 2010 6:10 am

The issue was discussed, then voted on, now the only thing left is the actual archiving
Yeah let's do it :)

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Phil Lamat
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Phil Lamat » Thu May 06, 2010 7:00 am

The TJT wrote:My opinion is that default leaderboard should be as it is now, but without gambling games, and this change should be implemented asap.

The grouping method Phil referred to could be a bonus feature to the leaderboard, a cherry on top.

I think we could get to "clone wars"(or Mahjong wars, ouch :) in another discussion.
You don't comment my idea :
classifying games instead of starring them ;
then just adding tick boxes to LB, make the default without gambling and mahjong if you want, and that's all

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Q. T. Quazar » Thu May 06, 2010 10:04 am

The idea is interesting, Phil, but it kind of defeats the purpose of a leaderboard, as in 'there is a leader.' If everyone can be top, why have a leaderboard at all?

It also raises the question about games that don't belong to any identifiable genre, or blend. 'Maze games' has to be one of the most nebulous categories ever in arcade gaming. Shmups and sports are much more clear.


I would do a dual leaderboard at MARP instead. (1) One ranked like the current board is, but with no clones. (2) And one points board, like our old leaderboard system, using all clones.

That would attract both the players (1) who want to play for elite, best-of-the-best status on classic games, as well as for (2) attract the less hardcore players, who want to do as well as they can on many different games and still get SOME points for their efforts, back to MARP (since right now, medalling below gold is worthless). As I see it, those are the two main groups of players that typically form MARP, and right now the setup is not serving either group, which may be hurting membership.


The big issue for me with the gambling games, and even the majiang games, is that this is an 'action' replay page. The strategy on one Majiang game is essentially the same on every other one, making them all (with a very few exceptions) essentially clones. There's no interest in watching them to see 'how x did y.' The only thing to watch is what type of hand the player plays for. There's no action.

For the gambling games, there isn't any strategy--just pure luck, and sometimes not even that if it's been determined at machine boot.


I'm not opposed to majiang games being at MARP--i'd probably vote to archive if it came up, but i think the case was already made for keeping them years ago. But the gambling games are pointless. Who wants to watch a replay that's just pure luck?


Mes deux sous.

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Q. T. Quazar » Thu May 06, 2010 10:06 am

Although, thinking about it, a toggle on the leaderboard to include/exclude archived games might be a feasible idea, coding-wise.

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Q. T. Quazar » Thu May 06, 2010 10:32 am

well, i should say i'm not opposed to Phil's idea in general, it's one way of solving the problem--i just think it would be a lot of coding.

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by pat33999 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:07 am

I'm sure we're all open to new ideas for the leaderboard, but the archiving has already been voted on and should be implemented ASAP. Deciding what to do with the leaderboard after that can happen later.

Thanks in advance to whoever actually DOES IT, instead of talking about it for another 5 years...

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by ***PL*** » Thu May 06, 2010 12:12 pm

The TJT wrote:DISCUSSION

This poll is to decide if we will give leaderboard points for gambling games:
The poll question "Archive gambling games?" is separate from the discussion point "Do we give out leaderboard points?"

That said, there are two different ways of handle this problem and implement a proper fix.

Respective solutions are to either 1) archive gambling games (rename with a *) or 2) have the LB ignore them as we do with tourney and knockout games.

I can do #1, but #2 needs to be programmed by Zwaxy. Personally, I agree with Phil that we should have game categories that don't count (#2).

Either way, we first need a list of the gambling games (preferably compiled by the RC or anyone who wants to assist).

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Phil Lamat
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Phil Lamat » Sun May 09, 2010 12:48 pm

I've almost finish to build the list.
Sorry for the massive upload, it's just to test playbackability now that they mainly replay (they weren't in m130), plus to point out some bug in several clones (not all) :
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/102 ... bonus-mame
(if someone can post this one to MameDev, thx)

I promise you I will do what's necessary so they don't count anymore in LB.
Just be patient, it needs a little time (and Zwaxy is hard to catch).

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by RAX » Mon May 10, 2010 4:26 am

Thanks in advance to Phil, and to whoever will help to win this holy war.

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by BBH » Mon May 10, 2010 5:17 am

It's really not the leaderboard that's been bothering me but the flood of a bunch of gambling-related recordings that always seems to happen (which is perhaps a byproduct of them being counted on the leaderboard). Just annoys me since I (and the vast majority of users) have no interest in them and don't like seeing so many at once clutter up the recent uploads page, pushing down recent recordings that are of actual interest to people (and take a better skill/time investment)

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Q. T. Quazar » Mon May 10, 2010 7:18 am

BBH wrote:It's really not the leaderboard that's been bothering me but the flood of a bunch of gambling-related recordings that always seems to happen (which is perhaps a byproduct of them being counted on the leaderboard). Just annoys me since I (and the vast majority of users) have no interest in them and don't like seeing so many at once clutter up the recent uploads page, pushing down recent recordings that are of actual interest to people (and take a better skill/time investment)
agreed. the interesting replays are getting buried in the flood right now, so there's been very few normal confirms going on.

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Phil Lamat
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon May 10, 2010 7:57 am

I understand.
I think once the games categorized, it will be possible they don't appear on the load page.
We will keep them on the "up" page to see whole changes --entries+edits-- but you'll get the "main" inputs only on "load" pages

Still waiting for Chris

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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Chad » Mon May 10, 2010 1:27 pm

totally, the search results should have a checkbox for each game category when searching, all categories created should be checked on except archived and gambling games which should have their checkbox not checked by default in the search parameters.
-skito

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Marco Marocco
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Re: Gambling games, leaderboard points

Post by Marco Marocco » Mon May 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Chad wrote:totally, the search results should have a checkbox for each game category when searching, all categories created should be checked on except archived and gambling games which should have their checkbox not checked by default in the search parameters.
this seems to be the best solution

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