Archive these games -topic

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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The TJT
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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by The TJT » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:46 am

I suggest archiving/not counting any gambling/mahjong.

Oh and all games made after 1986, except Camel Try.

Thanks! :P

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by BBH » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:48 am

I know it's probably not feasible without spending more time than its worth, but I still dream of a day where gambling machine games don't exist on MARP.

There's no skill involved, they're not interesting, nobody wants to watch replays of them. That's a bad thing on a replay-focused page.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by PP. » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:56 am

I agree. Slot machines and card games are 90%-95% luck.

A poll?...

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by Kale » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:55 am

The TJT wrote:I suggest archiving/not counting any gambling/mahjong.
Not being able to play mahjong doesn't mean there isn't skill involved.
And gambling ... in all those years you don't have an easy bulk archive option in database? 8O

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by The TJT » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:19 am

Yeah, gambling should be archived. Still. :)

Mahjong... I think my suggestion from another thread might work... give LB points according to amount of submissions on a title. If there is no competition on a game, you also get less points...

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by giro-X » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:37 am

Kale, I guess he wasn't serious. Nobody really can be serious claiming the will to archive games after 1986.

BBH, plenty have that dream too, and I'm pretty much convinced nobody wants to put hands on that due to the mole of manual work it would need.
I'm not just putting there my approval, I would seriously like to contribute somehow if it saves time to others, or convince others to act. Like, I could bring up a complete list of romsets name, even commission the work with real money (up to my limits, cause I'm unemployed) if an editor feels more motivated by then.
I would have totally taken care of all the boring stuff, in the imaginary world where I could have power to do so, but I'm not asking for that.
Yes I'm serious, up to a certain limit I would commission it. I've been using this site and uploaded stuff so much and not even donated once to maintain it, at least that would be a way to maintain the scoreboard better looking. Sorta. Kinda.

But before proceeding with any measure, we need wide agreement of course, and this is a nasty point.
I agree on archiving only gambling games and I agree on the part of "no skill involved". But the interest, this is so subjective, I believe we should leave interest aside.
Like, for example, if we archive all games that are based exclusively on gambling, we should archive (note again: this is an example) all the Amcoe slot machines, and we should archive (please note again: just an example) Poker Ladies. If we base it on personal interest, then someone may pop up and say "hey, Poker Ladies is cool, it's interesting to watch, can go up even for three loops with one credit, why do you archive that?", I'm pretty sure there would be someone out there like that.
Someone else (like me? maybe?) may say that Poker Ladies or Pachinko Sexy Reaction or thirsty-for-blood mahjongs may not be based entirely on luck factor, but applying some strategy may help to last longer, so we should be sure also on what to include in the "gambling" group. I.m.o. slot machines and card games are 2 different categories of gambling, since on slot machines you can't decide anything, on card games you can try to play with common sense even if you know the CPU will win at any cost at some point.
To summarise, I agree on doing a selection of games to archive that are "completely" based on luck, whether they are classified as gambling or not. I obviously dream to see archived more than that, but that's just me.

PP it's nice that you agree with us on something right after el wil has stolen to your friend (or other self) TK more than 200 first places on gambling games, and so, if it ever happens that we archive gambling games, you would have one less opponent in front of you. Look at the coincidence. :roll:

About the suggestion from TJT, that's another story with which I am neutral.
It has sense at first, but... I can see a bit of fanatism for those games that lot of people plays massively on purpose (golden era classics), and an unfair amount of points coming from the games played for obligation (tournament entries). And, the fear that someone more cunning than TK/PP will start creating multiple fake accounts that load awful scores to lot of games just to increase the value of who's at top of the ranking. Or even, people willing to get high in leaderboard would start to submit a score to literally everything, if the last score of a ranking still gives them a point.
On the other side, it is also true that, as the current system works, a score left alone without competition may be an undeserved 1st place to stash. Sincerely and personally, I never cared so much about that as I don't really understand in the very first place WHY a page like that leaderboard should even exist; my aim is primarily to reduce the spam, or "flooding" of replays submitted on board.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by The TJT » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:52 pm

giro-X wrote: About the suggestion from TJT, that's another story with which I am neutral.
It has sense at first, but... I can see a bit of fanatism for those games that lot of people plays massively on purpose (golden era classics), and an unfair amount of points coming from the games played for obligation (tournament entries).
Nothing wrong with getting more points for more competed games, imo. Yes some golden era classics have lots of submissions but so do also newer fighter games and shmups where there is quite a following at MARP.

You have a point about tournament entries, but in general if the game is in a popular tournament it better have very good score if the 1st place holder wants to keep his position after the tournament as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a tournament is competition... which does make the game more competed and thus worthy of better points.
And, the fear that someone more cunning than TK/PP will start creating multiple fake accounts that load awful scores to lot of games just to increase the value of who's at top of the ranking.
Didn't think of that, but I guess that would be noticed pretty quickly.
Or even, people willing to get high in leaderboard would start to submit a score to literally everything, if the last score of a ranking still gives them a point.
I meant that only the first place score gets points.
(basically the same with current 'Olympic' system)

Yes one could still leech their one-pointers but the motivation certainly would be less to do so for leaderboard since the payback would be relatively less.
On the other side, it is also true that, as the current system works, a score left alone without competition may be an undeserved 1st place to stash. Sincerely and personally, I never cared so much about that as I don't really understand in the very first place WHY a page like that leaderboard should even exist; my aim is primarily to reduce the spam, or "flooding" of replays submitted on board.
Well, my suggestion would probably improve the 'quality' of leaderboard while discouraging mass submissions. And I think that would be relatively fair for Mahjong games as well.

Obviously it would help with gambling games too, while waiting for the archiving which may or may not happen.

And don't you think a first place on Galaga or Street Fighter should earn way more points than one on 'Coco Loco (set 2)' ?

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by giro-X » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:28 pm

some golden era classics
Of course just some :) I was giving examples and trying to summarise
I meant that only the first place score gets points.
Allright, I didn't catch well that detail, thanks for pointing out. It makes more sense.
And don't you think a first place on Galaga or Street Fighter should earn way more points than one on 'Coco Loco (set 2)' ?
Ah yes, no doubt, but this is an easy question. The question gets harder if it's like "[...] Galaga should earn more than Street Fighter?" or "[...]Cachat should earn more than J.J. Squawkers?".
Besides, instead of focusing on these questions, we should evaluate if it's possible to do such a change, in terms of permissions, and if pros are worth compared to cons.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by PP. » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:44 pm

giro-X wrote: PP it's nice that you agree with us on something right after el wil has stolen to your friend (or other self) TK more than 200 first places on gambling games, and so, if it ever happens that we archive gambling games, you would have one less opponent in front of you. Look at the coincidence. :roll:
Stolen or taken back? El wil had the same first places (480) on August 2015...
He prepared for months his comeback.
Now wait for TK's answer :wink:

Point is that slot machines & card games help any unskilled player to go high in the Leaderboard. Therefore these games should be abolished.

The TJT wrote: And don't you think a first place on Galaga or Street Fighter should earn way more points than one on 'Coco Loco (set 2)' ?
Why??

Because you like more Galaga than Coco Loco?
I prefer Coco Loco and hate Galaga.
Last edited by PP. on Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by PP. » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:50 pm

giro-X wrote:And, the fear that someone more cunning than TK/PP will start creating multiple fake accounts that load awful scores to lot of games just to increase the value of who's at top of the ranking.
I don't like to hear this all the time.

If admin wants to merge those two accounts, it's ok to me.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by giro-X » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:07 pm

PP. wrote:Now wait for TK's answer :wink:

Point is that slot machines & card games help any unskilled player to go high in the Leaderboard. Therefore these games should be abolished.
[...]
I don't like to hear this all the time.
So you're saying TK is an unskilled player. Your words! Imagine where "he" would be in the leaderboard without gambling, which still gives him lot of positions.

Are you tired of reading? Oh guess what, we've been tired for months of your desperate tries to climb the leaderboard at any cost.
And the "TK's answer" is just one of the reasons why we seriously need to do something with those gambling games. We're tired of all of you guys replaying with minimal effort all of those gambling games for a digit in the leaderboard. 70 or 200+ replays uploaded by the same person in a day is unacceptable.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by The TJT » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:49 pm

giro-X wrote:
And don't you think a first place on Galaga or Street Fighter should earn way more points than one on 'Coco Loco (set 2)' ?
Ah yes, no doubt, but this is an easy question. The question gets harder if it's like "[...] Galaga should earn more than Street Fighter?" or "[...]Cachat should earn more than J.J. Squawkers?".
I don't think there's need for partisanship...
In general more uploads on a title equals more competed title, simple as that.

The real question is whether a game with 10 uploads deserves more points than a game with 1.
Besides, instead of focusing on these questions, we should evaluate if it's possible to do such a change, in terms of permissions, and if pros are worth compared to cons.
Yes. I do think it can be done. At least I don't recall Zwaxy saying that it couldn't.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by OutRunner » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:08 pm

I agree: the leaderboard needs changes...or erradication. From the distance, there are some things that aren't understandable.
It's also necessary the scrupulous fulfillment of the present rules, which are correct.
This community has the potential to be the best choice for the arcade "high scorer" and would be good to catch more players. That's why it's needful to polish this "little" things.

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by PP. » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:19 pm

giro-X wrote:
So you're saying TK is an unskilled player. Your words!
If he had only slot machines and card games yes.

giro-X wrote: Oh guess what, we've been tired for months of your desperate tries to climb the leaderboard at any cost.

Sorry, next time I'll ask for your permission :?

Now, why you don't blame El wil or Phil who also "try climb at any cost"? Why you break exclucively by balls when I just do what they do?

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Re: Archive these games -topic

Post by ***PL*** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:04 pm

giro-X wrote: BBH, plenty have that dream too, and I'm pretty much convinced nobody wants to put hands on that due to the mole of manual work it would need.
I'm not just putting there my approval, I would seriously like to contribute somehow if it saves time to others, or convince others to act. Like, I could bring up a complete list of romsets name, even commission the work with real money (up to my limits, cause I'm unemployed) if an editor feels more motivated by then.
I'd be willing to archive all the gambling games. I believe it should be all or nothing -- that is no cherry-picking certain titles for whatever reason. If an approved list gets put together (either by MARP vote or editor majority), I'll be more than happy to archive those games.

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