MARP Rules re: Front Line control mapping

[The TJT]

Marco Marroco (I think) used simultaneous keys to the same button (fire+direction). Is it allowed to MARP? Is it allowed to GEGOTW?

I don't know the practical advantage of that. Anyway that is NOT allowed at Marp, if fire and direction keys are separate at original arcade.
I assume John goes by same rules...

[Marco Marocco]

Marco Marroco (I think) used simultaneous keys to the same button (fire+direction). Is it allowed to MARP? Is it allowed to GEGOTW?

I don't know the practical advantage of that. Anyway that is NOT allowed at Marp, if fire and direction keys are separate at original arcade.
I assume John goes by same rules...

My english is really bad and so I don't understand the problem at all.
I played Frontline with my Hori stick, two buttons one for shotting, other for bombs, stick for moving. No tricks and now I got 19 k about ... may be later a bit better, I hope.
I think it's better for TRB enjoy the first position and enjoy the nice Brasilian girls ....

[destructor]

I played Frontline with my Hori stick, two buttons one for shotting, other for bombs

How you play on one (1) stick on game with 2 controllers (1 joy and 1 8-position switch (in MAME currently is as joy)?
Can you write your keys/joystick configuration here?

[Marco Marocco]

player 1 botton 1 = botton 0
player 1 botton 2 = botton 1

right, left, up and down are configurated with the corrispondent position of the stick .
Is something wrong ?

[The TJT]

Marco, if you look how you have mapped buttons at tab-"input this game", you will notice you have:

P1 RIGHT/LEFT -your joystick 1. left
P1 RIGHT/UP -your joystick 1. up
etc...

AND you have mapped

P1 LEFT/LEFT -your joystick 1. left
P! LEFT/UP -your joystick 1. up
etc...

(should be p1 LEFT/LEFT -your joystick 2. left
etc...)

This game is supposed to be played using 2 joysticks, right and left joystick (+couple buttons), other one controlling movement of your man and other joystick controlling direction to shoot. You have mapped your joystick inputs for both right and left, so that you can use only one joystick. This is not allowed at Marp.
(You get "advantage" by having only to play using one joystick instead of two)

d) Mapping two or more of the original arcade machine's buttons to a single key or joystick button in MAME is not permitted.

Example1: At fighter, you map mame buttons 1 and 2 and 3 to keyboard key Q, so you can make a special move with 100% accuracy by pushing only one button --- NOT OK
Example2: At fighter, you map key Q to player 1 joystick up and left..this way when you press Q, you get a diagonal with 100% accuracy---NOT OK
Example3: At Hypersports you map both 2 running buttons to keyboard key Q, you get 2 pushes at game by pushing Q once ---NOT OK

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

...and enjoy the nice Brasilian girls ....

This part I agree... for sure!

[awesome]

Ok. I guess I'm kind of new to this on MARP. But I'm confused.

I own a FrontLine machine. One joystick moves around. There is also a button to launch grenades. I have not problem with those. But then the other controller is NOT a joystick. It is a spinner that you position and then press to fire the shot. Now what I did, and maybe from what I'm reading this is not legal, is I mapped a square of buttons that would point the gun in that direction and fire for each time I press the button. So effectively my movement of my hand around on that square of keys would simulate the spinning of the knob to the proper direction. The pressing of the key simulates the pressing down on the knob. To me this should be perfectly acceptable. The only advantage here is the ability to fire in one direction and then possibly fire in the other direction next without first visiting each and every location of the 8-way knob position inbetween the two directions. But what you are suggesting with two joysticks has the same advantage (you can just push the joystick from one direction to the other). So is what I'm doing allowed?

Technically, the way it was described in the one post indicates what I'm doing is not legal. If that is the case, please remove my recording as I did not wish to violate anything.

Basically I setup my keys as:
Keys W, E, and R are all assigned the up position
Keys X, C, and V are all assigned the down position
Keys W, S, and X are all assigned the left position
Keys R, F, and V are all assigned the right position
Keys W, E, R, S, F, X, C, and V are all assigned the fire button
I use the arrow keys to run the man around.
I assign the space bar to be the grenade button and it will fire in whatever the last position I normally fired in.


Not that MARP is TG but I want to point out that this has been allowed at TG. But possibly only because it was thought that there was no way to know for sure how the player has their keyboard setup. Is there a way in Wolf.101 to see the players setup? If so I would like to communicate that to my fellow TG contacts for our consideration.

Thanks,

[awesome]

Ok. Now that I'm searching around a bit more, I see I have totally missed a big discussion on this. Obviously the masses have voted and spoken. My only comment is that there are just sometimes that rules need to exist on a case by case basis. I suggest that games with this sort of control are BEST emulated by my method (Wild Western, FrontLine, more?) and possibly should be exceptions to the rule.

But I will abide. How do I go about removing my FrontLine score as I have obviously violated a rule that I wasn't aware of (but should have been).

[DaviL]

...and enjoy the nice Brasilian girls ....

This part I agree... for sure!

Me too.. I was in Natal this september, how can I forget?

[The TJT]

Ok. Now that I'm searching around a bit more, I see I have totally missed a big discussion on this. Obviously the masses have voted and spoken. My only comment is that there are just sometimes that rules need to exist on a case by case basis. I suggest that games with this sort of control are BEST emulated by my method (Wild Western, FrontLine, more?) and possibly should be exceptions to the rule.

But I will abide. How do I go about removing my FrontLine score as I have obviously violated a rule that I wasn't aware of (but should have been).

Thanks for adult attitude.
The diagonal mapping rule was presented mainly because of fighter-games diagonal mapping. As I said before: I won't be looking for diagonal mapping at replays for Robotron etc...where you don't get advantage over original arcade.
(So, you can use keyboard diagonal mapping at front line imo.)

However mapping fire button AND fire-directions to be same would be unacceptable according to Marp rules.
I understand the diffficulty of emulating the game controls. It can be argued that not having to use fire at your case gives advantage over original(and if allowed with keyboard, then it should be allowed for joystick too).
You can map the fire button separately, it just makes controls a bit more complicated. Of course best is to play the game with two triggersticks or hacked original controls.

To your other question, yes it's possible to see if multiple mappings were used, but it requires an Marp editor tool called Analinp and some knowledge about the program.
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Marco and Greg, could you please zero/remove your inps. If you want your inps still to be downloadable, put zero for the score. Otherwise you can write "deleted" as gamename when editing submission.

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

Me too.. I was in Natal this september, how can I forget?

Nice choice to travel to Natal - RN. However, I dont know this city yet.

[mahlemiut]

...I thought Natal was in South Africa...

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

...I thought Natal was in South Africa...

OT: At least you are in the correct hemisphere, Barry!

[Marco Marocco]

[quote="The TJT

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Marco and Greg, could you please zero/remove your inps. If you want your inps still to be downloadable, put zero for the score. Otherwise you can write "deleted" as gamename when editing submission.[/quote]

Sorry TJ, but I've done a great "casino" with my marp account and Ican no more submit like Marco Marocco (new nick: MarcoMarocco) ..

[_Zaphod_]

Front Line is a special case here.

The arcade's twistystick works differently from EVERY OTHER game's twistystick.

To the game program it is a dual stick setup. when you aim the spinner stick right, the "fire stick" is HELD to the right and when you aim it up the "fire stick" is HELD up. you then press the actual fire and grenade buttons to fire in the direction the "fire stick" is moving.

The usual control method people use here is to map the directional arrows to both the move and fire joysticks. This breaks the rules, but provides no advantage over the arcade hadware, as you lose the ability to move one way and fire another.

An alternate method is to leav them mapped to seperate joysticks, which DOES provide an advantage over the arcade hardware (allowing instant 180s on the firing stick), but is technically legal under marp rules! It is clumsy, though. you have to keep movin your hand from buttons to fire stick to change firing direction instead of just twisting.

The method the person used was to provide buttons that both aimed and shot at the same time, i think. this provides a greater advantage over the arcade itself, and you just press grenade ot throw on ethe last way yo fired. This setup is a lot more playable then standard dual stick+2 fire buttons.

Most other twisty sticks register turn left and turn right. but this one physically closes directional contacts as it rotates instead, so the arrow on the twisty stick is always accurate.

the PROPER solution is to implement a new "hacked" controler scheme in a special frontline version of MAME where pressing the "turn left" and "turn right' standard keys will switch the direction of the "fire stick" appropriately, which woul dallow the game to be played with standard twistysticks, as ell as allow a proper no advantage mapping on keyboard, wher yo must press turn left or turn right multiple times to reach the desired direction.