inp submission with MacMAME

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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LN2
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inp submission with MacMAME

Post by LN2 » Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:52 pm

Sorry if this is a newbie question. I am a newbie for here though.

I play MAME on my Mac using MacMAME. I have noticed some of the inp files even if I have the same "version"(e.g. 0.60) do not play back for me correctly but they do on a PC.

I just wanted to check if submissions using MacMAME are allowed. Looking at the mame version list options in the score submit form I see a mac 0.36b1(if ever released) listed but no other Mac versions.

The MacMAME builds have been quite current the past year. I would love to participate and submit scores for several games. I see many "high" scores that really aren't so high. :P

For many games the inp recorded in MacMAME 0.60 plays back correctly in win60 mame anyway. It all depends on the game. ie. ms pac doesn't work....requires exact same mame used.

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Post by Chad » Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:13 pm

The bottom line is recordings are allowed if they playback and don't cheat. Thus Mac mame recordings are allowed as long as they playback with "some" version of mame. There aren't a lot of confirmers (maybe NONE!) with macs, but it's much appriciated if you can setup your macmame to make recordings that can be or just are playbackable with official mame (or mame32). But even if they can't playback with dos mame, please make sure they playback with macmame so someone can confirm them later. thanks for submiting!
-skito

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Post by sikraiken » Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:37 pm

Yea, it's too bad we can't reach out to our Mac players more, like Tech-D. The recordings can't be zeroed out as long as they DO playback on a Mac computer, as Chad said. We really should look into finding a way to get access to Mac's in order to expand our player roster more. ^_^

If you do plan on submitting, though, make sure you state that you are using MacMAME. :)

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Post by Chad » Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:19 pm

speaking of specifying MacMame... maybe it's time we added two drop downs instead of one reflecting the version,

one drop down with platform:

macMame
dosMame
officialMame(cli) XP/2K
officialMame(cli) 98/ME
xmame
mame32 XP/2K
mame32 98/ME

AND another one for the version:

mame72
...
mame56
...
m37b15
...
mame30

this involves a database change so it certainly won't be implimented soon, so thanks for specifying the version/playform in the description before this gets done.
Last edited by Chad on Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-skito

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yeah

Post by LN2 » Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:22 pm

Yeah I always check the playback in MacMAME directly.

Some game inps work just fine in dos MAME and win mame32.

It's odd how they aren't consistent. I did a search for macmame and it seems the random function is slightly different for different platforms so if the game(like ms pac) has some random starting thing it will differ from platform to platform.

I have moved my NVRAM folder so that isn't an issue.

I would just hate to submit a great score for some game and it be refused because it requires MacMAME for playback.

Perhaps you guys should coordinate with the MacMAME guy and get him to have MacMAME 0.61 100% inp compatible with mame32 having the header info etc. Does that header info include the random "seed" which would make the playback the same even for games with an initial random thing?

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Post by mahlemiut » Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:31 am

I don't know exactly how MacMAME works, but it would most defintely have a different 68000 CPU core to the Win32 and DOS version as by default MAME is compiled with the core written in 80x86 ASM, rather than speed. This definitely does have an effect on playback, as the recordings done with the ASM core won't playback in a version using the C core.

Also, last I remember, MacMAME INPs have no header, although other versions will accept it, you just have to specify the romset to play it back with on the commandline (or just highlight it if you're using MAME32).

Basically, it's fine to upload Mac INPs, especially seeing as we can't really prove that it doesn't playback.
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Post by LN2 » Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:42 pm

My guess would be that some other Mac user would view the inp and certainly report it if it wasn't viewable or not correct versus what was reported.

I have VirtualPC on my Mac and can test inp playback on mame60 in VPC. Playback of a couple mame60 inps from here to test it work fine, but don't playback correctly in the mac version. I can't really play with mame in VPC though as through the video emulation the frame skipping is too severe. Like Ms. Pac....the monsters are not in the same position in MacMAME versus dos-mame. I guess that is because whatever default random-seed is generated for that is different between the 2 versions.

Perhaps a suggestion for a future mame version is for recording inps including the random-seed number in the inp header info. Each platform could support this including MacMAME, then playbacks would be ok and we wouldn't have to even do tricks like moving our NVRAM folders etc.

The game on using an inp for playback would look and use the seed number from there.

Just an idea....seems like that would work...

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Re: ...

Post by mahlemiut » Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:11 pm

LN2 wrote:Perhaps a suggestion for a future mame version is for recording inps including the random-seed number in the inp header info. Each platform could support this including MacMAME, then playbacks would be ok and we wouldn't have to even do tricks like moving our NVRAM folders etc.
That would be difficult seeing as different games will get random seeds differently, and some games even have a hardware random number generator. And forcing a set seed wouldn't help a lot, as then you'd have the same game every time, which for some games is silly (games like the usg* games, and quiz games)

And you'd still have to move NVRAM, because a recording made without it calls extra code to initialise default settings, where with already existing NVRAM, it doesn't need to, but also different settings stored in the NVRAM will affect playback too.
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Post by LN2 » Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:36 pm

I guess the problem if essentially many game ROM set formats would need to be changed or something to allow this type of "plugin". That would be a huge task to redo hundreds of ROM sets to add that kind of support.

What if the NVRAM file is actually included? I will have to test making an inp in MacMAME 0.60 on a game like ms. pacman I know normally doesn't play on the PC versions but with the NVRAM folder and preexisting nv file there....then copy the nvram file to the PC etc. and try the inp playback. My guess is that won't help but can it potentially allow some games to playback that wouldn't without the nvram file?

Anyway, none of the people of MARP have a Mac? What if a few MARP members that play MAME on a Mac were used to verify each other's inp files? ...like referees specifically for MacMAME inp reviews for games that won't play back correctly with the same version of mame or mame32 on a PC. Obviously we couldn't review our own inp submissions, but there could be 3-4 people and someone else is assigned to view my inp and confirm the score and settings and I review theirs.

Also, is there a way at MARP to submit an inp but not have it publically available? For some patterned games like Super Pacman I wouldn't really want to submit an inp file then someone else can just view my inp several times then just run my patterns and get a score nearly matching mine or surpassing it a tad. It seems all submitted inp files are publically available. This will keep me from submitting inps for certain games to MARP. There are still tons of games though where this really doesn't matter. :P

Also I think for many games the MacMAME inp recordings play back just fine in mame or mame32.

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Post by mahlemiut » Thu Jul 25, 2002 10:26 pm

Not all games use NVRAM, and Ms. Pacman certainly doesn't. I really doubt that copying the NVRAM from Mac to PC is going to be any help.

As far as I am aware, Tech-D is the only currrently active Mac user on MARP. Certainly, there are no confirmers that have Macs, and those recordings of Tech-D's that have been confirmed, do run on a DOS or Windows-based version of MAME.

And yes, all recordings submitted to MARP are publically available, there really isn't any point to hide any away.
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Post by roncli » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:15 pm

Christ... Nice QBert games there, Rick. Wish I was good enough (to get to Level 3 :P). Anyway, so far your first two play back fine on MAME32, and I look forward to seeing some more top notch recordings.
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thx

Post by LN2 » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:47 pm

thx roncli. :D

I am working on qbertjp now. Man that game I think might be tougher than FHMC-Q*bert. hehe

nah...I just have to play it a few more times to get used to when the green dudes come out in q*bert(japan).

Glad to see those verified so quickly. I am not sure what will happen on games that can't playback for you though without a Mac. Maybe that other mac player can verify those(?)...and I verify his?

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Re: ...

Post by bmclean » Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:51 pm

LN2 wrote:Also, is there a way at MARP to submit an inp but not have it publically available?
No. MARP isn't for pussies too afraid to lose to show how they do anything.

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Re: ...

Post by LN2 » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:53 pm

bmclean wrote:No. MARP isn't for pussies too afraid to lose to show how they do anything.
gimme a break. Is this put down LN2 day or something?

Where on earth does an attack on a 1.5 year old thread come from?

Back then I was new to MARP. It was a simple question just for info.

I think some perhaps think I play using macmame so most can't watch my replays so I can 'hide'.

That isn't the case at all. Anyone with access to a mac could view my replays. My pacman replay file should confirm that as well. I actually think I'll attempt a similar conversion to what Lordgaz did for other replay files I have here. It likely will work for many other games.

I play using macmame cuz I have a mac. I do not have a PC. I do have VirtualPC software on my mac which emulates a PC but the speed isn't up to snuff to even play classics anywhere near 100% speed without using extreme frameskip and no sound.

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Post by Patwos » Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:16 pm

Nah - it's probably just 1½ years since Brian read the boards..... :)

Pat.

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