MARP Rule Change -- Broken "non-working" Games

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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***PL***
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Post by ***PL*** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:13 am

Tommi, there's no need for you to be a prick. Editors cannot just make up new rules. What happened here was that at least 5 of 7 editors supported the ideas and the two motions PASSED.

If we asked players to vote we'd have 150 polls and hundreds of different opinions. Somebody (the MARP Editors) have to lay down the rules. I'm an Editor, Regulation Coordinator, Tournament Judge, Games Database Manager, etc, etc all done in my spare time. I don't get paid so I'm not going to listen to stupid complaints. When people abuse the existing rules, yes, editors have to make new ones. And FYI this is done by 2/3 majority, just like public polls now.

Granted some games should not have been archived based on the various messages and these will be looked at and reinstated on a case-by-case basis. Until then sit tight and be patient while we work through this.

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Post by Chad » Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:24 am

it's not like these points go away forever, when the game becomes reinstated (and no major fixes are made) the POINTS will proly come back. jeeze, can't we all just compete for fun for first place in a game that is star*ed and not get any points? or is that kind of like working for a site and not getting paid, some would rather be paid leaderboard points for recording probably broken games i guess.

If there really isn't a problem with a mame dev disapproved game, then ask pat to un*star it... the majority of games that are said to be broken are really broken, period.
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RE

Post by QRS » Wed Aug 28, 2002 3:36 am

Chad:

Like I said in my post, I don´t care about the leaderboardpoints here.
The lb is not the point here, it is how we treat the games.

As long as a game is playable and there are no advantages or anything that prevents you from playing it like a fully working game etc it should be treated as a normal game.

That was my point. If you read my post I do tell you about other games that should be archived instead (wich I have first on) that should be removed instead. Does it sounds like I lose or gain lbpoints on that ? :=)

Anyway, I´m pleased now when you all seem to take it on a case to case basis. After all we all want to get rid of the broken games right? :)

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Post by DRN » Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:07 am

I couldnt care less about the leaderboard points :roll: , it's not as if I'm contender for marp champion or whatever you want to call it, I'm just here for a bit of fun.
I totally agree with what you want to do here, remove those broken games. I think most people were just curious to know why perfectly working games were being archived thats all.
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The TJT
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Post by The TJT » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:09 am

***PL*** wrote:Tommi, there's no need for you to be a prick. Editors cannot just make up new rules. What happened here was that at least 5 of 7 editors supported the ideas and the two motions PASSED.
Patrick, if you can't take criticism, do not call me prick.
I simply think your decision of * was not very well thought out.

But what bugged me most was the fact that editors just changed public voting percent from 50 to 67 without public voting. What next?... 90%. Editors decision increases editors power, and lessens public opinion, which is totally against all democracy...(unless DEFCON=1.)... Not that I would disagree with that rule, it's just a matter of principle. I don't hate editors or something like that :)

Can you publish the Editors IRC meeting log, for us to see how your decision was made and what were the cunning arguments for both new rules :twisted:

Yes, leisure suit Larr...eh Alex, back to mainframe....

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Post by mahlemiut » Wed Aug 28, 2002 3:59 pm

The TJT wrote:Can you publish the Editors IRC meeting log, for us to see how your decision was made and what were the cunning arguments for both new rules :twisted:
It was actually a poll in the Editors' Forum.
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Post by Donut » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:28 pm

I have MAME32 .61 and it lists 149 games that are in the "non-working" category. I would tend to believe Pat used this list to archive them. All the short game names mentioned in this thread are in the list (except mshvsfu which doesn't exist, mshvsfu1 isn't archived).

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Post by mahlemiut » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:49 pm

Ah, I see... The other US set is the parent (mshvsf). All this short name chaning, especially in CPS-2 games is damn annoying.
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Post by LN2 » Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:40 pm

Perhaps this is a separate subject so deserves it's own thread, but what about moving games to the archive where there are like 5+ people "tied" for first place with the max score possible?

Games like Circus Charlie at 999,990 and a Lode Runner or 2 that have a "high score" of "6" with tons of people just doing that to get 100pts.

Those games seem senseless when they have a clear max score that several have reached. It takes little to no skill to match those scores for those games and likely a handful of others fall into this same category.

Maybe I need to just play that 1 Lode Runner and get my easy 100 pts. :P

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Post by Chad » Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:19 pm

i'm not really sure if that's the case especially if some time in the future a lot more people uploaded games there could be legitimately 6 people who got the same score at the top each 6 might have been equally difficult...

there used to be a cool link zwaxy made that would find these

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mode=freebies

but it's broken :(
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Post by Haze » Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:23 pm

some games have problems which won't affect the recordings at MARP one bit. Eg the Afega shooters are marked as Non-working since if you leave them to go into their attract mode you can't play them, however if you coin up and start a game before the attract mode they work fine and can be completed. *ing the replays for those is pointless. There are also games in Mame which don't work 100% correctly and don't have the flag, the flag is only there as an indicator, its not always totally accurate and doesn't really represent if a game can or cannot be played.

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Post by Haze » Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:25 pm

I should add it up to the person who writes the driver to decided (to an extent) if to use the flag or not, I could have flagged s1945ii as 'Not Working' because one of the bosses doens't work correctly, however the rest of it is fine so I didn't, some people might have done.

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Post by QRS » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:55 am

I would not really call Circus Charlie and Lode Runner easy first places. Those games requires skill to max out and are not easy 100 points.

There are other games that fits your description though, like the bowling games (those are already archived)

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Re: ...

Post by Frankie » Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:07 am

LN2 wrote:Perhaps this is a separate subject so deserves it's own thread, but what about moving games to the archive where there are like 5+ people "tied" for first place with the max score possible?

Games like Circus Charlie at 999,990 and a Lode Runner or 2 that have a "high score" of "6" with tons of people just doing that to get 100pts.

Those games seem senseless when they have a clear max score that several have reached. It takes little to no skill to match those scores for those games and likely a handful of others fall into this same category.

Maybe I need to just play that 1 Lode Runner and get my easy 100 pts. :P
999,990 on Circus Charlie is Easy? Wow, that's new to me :wink:

I think that everyone who can max out Circus Charlie deserves 100 points, no matter if they care about the leaderboard or not.

About the Lode Runner game, yes that's true. But only until we find another way to score the game.
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Post by Chad » Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:23 pm

speaking of circus charlie 999,999 is certainly an amazing score and not many people will be able to do it but it's possible to "attempt" to eliminate the score maxing out. Maybe a 3/5 life limit with no extras OR more apropriately only allow a certain number of rounds (those vine swinging rounds seems to have no limit)
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