Confirmation only ever means that it plays back. It's easy to miss things like this when only done for about 5 seconds at a few select points. Especially when you're trying to watch gameplay.GJTMarper wrote:Hang on now, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here - not all of PAC's scores have been found to be illegit as of right now. Besides, Innuendo has something to gain by that particular score being disqualified:There's also this from the 2012 score confirmation log (bolded for emphasis):slyspy Leaderboard:
1st - PAC with 1,140,000 points
2nd - Innuendo with 1,098,400 pointsI await Innuendo's and/or mahlemiut's comments on this.Wed Aug 1 10:08:50 2012 : INNUENDO (rsm) confirmed the slyspy score of 1140000 by PAC (pacman)
Wed Aug 1 10:51:00 2012 : mahlemiut (br) confirmed the slyspy score of 1140000 by PAC (pacman)
T14 - PAC has been disqualified
Moderator: giro-X
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
- Barry Rodewald
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
![Image](http://mahlemiut.marpirc.net/stridertalbain.gif)
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
![Image](http://mahlemiut.marpirc.net/stridertalbain.gif)
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
For spanish community:
Pac = MEJOR JUGADOR ARCADE DEL MUNDO
For all the rest the world:
Pac = MEJOR CHEATER ARCADE DEL MUNDO.
LOL.
Now is the turn of P. Valmir. His Golden Axe WR fake is confirmed but... it's time to delete.
Pac = MEJOR JUGADOR ARCADE DEL MUNDO
For all the rest the world:
Pac = MEJOR CHEATER ARCADE DEL MUNDO.
LOL.
Now is the turn of P. Valmir. His Golden Axe WR fake is confirmed but... it's time to delete.
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
No words...BBH wrote: I realize of course that there are still members in the Spanish MAME community that don't want to believe PAC cheated, that think our findings on his recent recordings are bogus because we haven't released the full details (which we haven't done because we believe it to be very dangerous knowledge if it was to become widespread at this time). But when you consider this history of trying to sneak recordings by with autofire... is it really so much of a stretch to believe he would try to get away with breaking the rules in other ways too? He's not the clean, honest player that he may seem to some of you. Yes, he does have legitimate skills but his desire to be #1 on certain games led to him playing in illegitimate ways. If he's really innocent of these wrongdoings, why has he not responded in any way to these accusations? He's gone silent on this thread, and the thread on TG in which he accused us of being liars. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.
![Shocked 8O](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
Please, do not assume that sentence as proclaimed by all the spanish arcade community. There are a lot of important spanish arcade players that believe in MARP accusations. And in a few days this number of players will probably be much greater.GHEMANT wrote:For spanish community:
Pac = MEJOR JUGADOR ARCADE DEL MUNDO
For all the rest the world:
Pac = MEJOR CHEATER ARCADE DEL MUNDO.
LOL.
I think it's time to get over your obvious spanish players trauma.
Regards!
- colman paolo
- Button Slapper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:23 pm
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
BBH wrote:You don't even need any external tools to see his autofire use in that Sly Spy recording. Just play the recording back with "-iv 1" to see his inputs. His button press rate varies throughout the beginning of the recording, as well it should and all seems normal there. But when he reaches the boss shark at ~31000 frames, his firing rate completely changes and becomes too consistent. It becomes a consistent 3 frames on, 3 frames off. Obviously this is the most important part for score because every hit registered on the shark is a bonus 10000 so obviously it would make sense to use autofire here. He does it again when he assembles the golden gun at ~49100 frames in, and once more at ~71700 frames in when he has to destroy the final force field. Yes, INNUENDO confirmed this score but I don't fault him for not catching it - confirmers are only confirming that the score plays back to the advertised score.
At least PAC wasn't dumb enough to use autofire in his entire recording, like saulonpb has kept doing in his 1943 recordings and elsewhere. PAC was smart enough not to keep it on the entire time, so as to make it more difficult to notice. And hey, it went under the radar for several years, so he'd gotten away with it for a while.
....on the other hand, back in 2010 it looks like he kept autofire on the entire time for his Chiki Chiki Boys replay during K8 (yes, during a tournament no less).
http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/9/d/5/pac ... olf106.zip
Constant 3 frame inputs on button 1 the entire time. It's actually pretty embarassing that this wasn't caught for so long. Just look at the consistency of those inputs with -iv 1 and tell me he's not using autofire.
I realize of course that there are still members in the Spanish MAME community that don't want to believe PAC cheated, that think our findings on his recent recordings are bogus because we haven't released the full details (which we haven't done because we believe it to be very dangerous knowledge if it was to become widespread at this time). But when you consider this history of trying to sneak recordings by with autofire... is it really so much of a stretch to believe he would try to get away with breaking the rules in other ways too? He's not the clean, honest player that he may seem to some of you. Yes, he does have legitimate skills but his desire to be #1 on certain games led to him playing in illegitimate ways. If he's really innocent of these wrongdoings, why has he not responded in any way to these accusations? He's gone silent on this thread, and the thread on TG in which he accused us of being liars. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.
Shame
Golden era rules!
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
GHEMANT, please don't insult the entire Spanish community just because some members of that community are hesitant to accept MARP's conclusions. That's unfair, and if anything I think we should be reaching out to the Spanish MAME community, trying to assure them we still value and appreciate their participation, and help them understand MARP's actions in this case. You're certainly free to express your opinion here, but let's keep things reasonably civil if possible.GHEMANT wrote:For spanish community:
Pac = MEJOR JUGADOR ARCADE DEL MUNDO
For all the rest the world:
Pac = MEJOR CHEATER ARCADE DEL MUNDO.
LOL.
I know you have additional concerns about the Golden Axe replay of P. Valmir, but if you'd like to discuss concerns about that replay can you please start a new thread on the Regulation Play forum about the replay and we can talk about it there.
Thanks,
George
- Marco Marocco
- MARPaltunnel Wrists
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:35 am
- Location: Trieste - Italy
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
I think Pac must be banned from Marp: now he's uploading new scores like notingh was happened.
I hope in a strong decision by our Editors !
I hope in a strong decision by our Editors !
- franco.benedetti
- Button Masher
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:31 pm
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
thought he would be smart enough not to send any other score, instead he didMarco Marocco wrote:I think Pac must be banned from Marp: now he's uploading new scores like notingh was happened.
I hope in a strong decision by our Editors !
![d'oh! #-o](./images/smilies/eusa_doh.gif)
are we sure he is not testing some new cheating ways? and even if he is not, who would waste time trying to find it out? I wouldn't
permaban pls
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
He appears to be uploading old INPs. Some, at least, seem to push leeching to the limit. Why they weren't uploaded before is a mystery...
- Barry Rodewald
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
![Image](http://mahlemiut.marpirc.net/stridertalbain.gif)
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
![Image](http://mahlemiut.marpirc.net/stridertalbain.gif)
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
Because most of them would be first placers on the leaderboard?mahlemiut wrote:He appears to be uploading old INPs. Some, at least, seem to push leeching to the limit. Why they weren't uploaded before is a mystery...
In any case, dumping a ridiculous amount of high-ranking and probably old INPs on the staff at once = not cool = suspicious. (Yes, I know TK2012 does bunches of submissions at once, but those are from slot machines where it would be easy to record and submit a bunch at once in one day in free time - PAC has either been keeping these to himself for a long time or had "help" making them.)
- colman paolo
- Button Slapper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:23 pm
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
GHEMANT wrote:For spanish community:
Pac = MEJOR JUGADOR ARCADE DEL MUNDO
For all the rest the world:
Pac = MEJOR CHEATER ARCADE DEL MUNDO.
LOL.
Now is the turn of P. Valmir. His Golden Axe WR fake is confirmed but... it's time to delete.
Ghemant Im a great player. If I made a cheat with any INP just invalidate it.
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
I have a lot INP than I not submited beacuse they were not significant. But there are not cheat in it . You can check the INPGJTMarper wrote:Because most of them would be first placers on the leaderboard?mahlemiut wrote:He appears to be uploading old INPs. Some, at least, seem to push leeching to the limit. Why they weren't uploaded before is a mystery...
In any case, dumping a ridiculous amount of high-ranking and probably old INPs on the staff at once = not cool = suspicious. (Yes, I know TK2012 does bunches of submissions at once, but those are from slot machines where it would be easy to record and submit a bunch at once in one day in free time - PAC has either been keeping these to himself for a long time or had "help" making them.)
Re: T14 - PAC has been disqualified
When a INP is cheated just invalidate it , but you cant invalidate the right onesMarco Marocco wrote:I think Pac must be banned from Marp: now he's uploading new scores like notingh was happened.
I hope in a strong decision by our Editors !