Gambling games, leaderboard points

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:00 am

R Belmont at mame.net forums wrote: "Prior versions of MAME have excluded some drivers (primarily gambling-
related) for philosophical reasons. Since these games are legitimately at
risk of being lost to the ages, and many of them have strong similarities
to the other sorts of games MAME emulates, it has been decided to allow their
inclusion going forward. The criteria for inclusion in MAME is now simply
"any primarily video based arcade machine, driven by one of more CPUs," and
should relieve any confusion surrounding this issue going forward.

There has been added some gambling games to MAME at 99u2, and there might be many, very many to be added later.

They are those fruitmachine games, electronic blackjack and whatever.
They're based mostly on luck, or should I say payback ratio...
I suggest we don't give leaderboard points for these, they would get *'ed. Submission for these would be ok, just no LB points at MARP.

I believe most of you would agree on this, but now is the time to say something if you feel like it

----

Pat,
lottof2.zip (m99u1) seems to be same kind of luck game, so should be treated same as gambling games, when added.
What's the current procedure with trivia games? Imo they could be *'d by default when new games are emulated.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:10 pm

I don't agree. Game is game.

Frankie · Post by **Frankie** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:21 pm

I would like to wait and see those games, and then we can talk about it, and then run a poll.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:44 pm

Treat them the same as gambling mahjong games, which, for reasons known only to MAMEdev, have been in MAME for years.

Currently, this would be scoring by number of credits won at the time you quit.

Why any distinction was made between regular gambling games and mahjong gambling games is beyond me. Both are rigged.

(Eh, you could probably argue that regular mahjong games are rigged too, but at least they are often a lot fairer)

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:21 pm

Frankie wrote:I would like to wait and see those games, and then we can talk about it, and then run a poll.

Ok, talk now!

I tried 3 of these games.

These are based on luck, leaderboard should be about skill.

Would you really want to playback these?

Difficult to make rules. It makes no sense to insert one coin and try once, then exit and try again, untill you get royal flush. Same applies with 10 credits to start.

There is an emulator that emulates more than 1000 of these already, we need to decide this soon, before there are few hundred of these emulated...or we get golf and mahjong syndrome again.

Frankie · Post by **Frankie** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:52 pm

The TJT wrote:
Frankie wrote:I would like to wait and see those games, and then we can talk about it, and then run a poll.
Ok, talk now!

I tried 3 of these games.

These are based on luck, leaderboard should be about skill.

Would you really want to playback these?

Difficult to make rules. It makes no sense to insert one coin and try once, then exit and try again, untill you get royal flush. Same applies with 10 credits to start.

There is an emulator that emulates more than 1000 of these already, we need to decide this soon, before there are few hundred of these emulated...or we get golf and mahjong syndrome again.

I see what you mean. So, should we * these right away?

Anyone else?

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:28 pm

archive the slots etc...no point playing unless at a casino...perhaps some insight into reasoning why not to gamble can be gained.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:14 am

I still say there's little difference between these and mahjong gambling games. It certainly seems like I'm in the minority with that opinion...

Post by **Zhorik** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:33 am

I agree. Archive the mahjong games too.

-gastrainga

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:25 am

Zhorik wrote:I agree. Archive the mahjong games too.

-gastrainga

What? No. Here are cool mahjong games, for example:
Bakatonosama Mahjong Manyuki
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999
Mahjong Daiyogen
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999
Jyanshin Densetsu - Quest of Jongmaster
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999
....
Here are mahjongs with the end which are possible to finish, and yes some are gambling.
I like play on mahjongs even on these gambling. You don't like mahjongs and you want archive these. Then I don't like airshooters (example only) and please archive all airshooters.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:25 am

That would be the gambling mahjong games, I take it.

Phil Lamat · Post by **Phil Lamat** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:10 am

I agree with Des ; in mahjong games you've part of luck but also you need certain "science" of the game ... like more than 50% of the games on Marp ; the format of mahjongs (bet or vs) isn't important.

For gambling is different ; close to 100% of luck.
Could be archived, need a poll I think.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:49 am

Gambling mahjong games (those with [BET] in the title, plus a few others) are totally rigged, just like any other gambling game. The main difference between regular mahjong games, and gambling mahjong games, is that the gambling ones won't let you win if it doesn't want you to. Sure, there is some skill needed, but there is some skill needed with any other gambling game too (like knowing how to play for starters).

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:15 pm

I agree on most of the mahjong games...I like mahjong, but most of them are luck based, not all. I haven't submitted any, but do sometimes play them(at least those that I can figure out which keys do what...too much work). You can lose a winning hand if you don't play it right, but some you just don't win w/o luck. I'd like to hear Phil's input on them as he has the most experience with them(and stands the most to lose LB-wise).

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Here are the links to see what games we're talking obout, as grouped at MAWS:
1)
Misc betting (19)
Misc. betting "mature" (6)

2) casino (20)

3) [BET] -games (44)

**********************************************************

1: these are the games I originally made this topic for, above pics. Introduced at latest versions of MAME. Should be archived.

2: I think these are pretty much similar games as group 1. Introduced somewhat earlier MAME versions, but still most not having marp submissions. Also seems some have problems with randomness(you get same cards every time etc). Should be archived

3: These are mostly mahjong-"bet" games. There are 44 of these games (total of Mahjong games is 226 currently). Should be archived?? This should be a separate poll.
(I think Philippe would want to kill me if we had a vote for archiving ALL mahjong games...Yes, if you want we can have a poll on that too, but archiving would definitely require 2/3 vote majority)