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Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom (out of date ROMs)
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:57 am
by Buttermaker
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... lines=9999
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/a/5/d/mj ... mame70.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... lines=9999
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/e/9/mj ... mame70.zip
WIP:
- 0.75: Merge all gfx1 roms to rom sbros-1.41 (512kb). Correct Z80 CPU2 clock speed to 6MHz and YM3812 to 3MHz and monitor/video frequency to 57.5 Hz.
We need a rule that forbids uploading using out of date ROMs.
Re: Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom (out of date ROMs)
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:44 am
by Francois Daniel
Buttermaker wrote:WIP:
- 0.75: Merge all gfx1 roms to rom sbros-1.41 (512kb). Correct Z80 CPU2 clock speed to 6MHz and YM3812 to 3MHz and monitor/video frequency to 57.5 Hz.
We need a rule that forbids uploading using out of date ROMs.
I agreed but what's of old uploads ?
Francois
Re: Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom (out of date ROMs)
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:55 am
by Buttermaker
Francois Daniel wrote:I agreed but what's of old uploads ?
They will stay of course.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:49 pm
by Chad
I disagree, if you were that intelligent about knowing that your current romset was out of date then you proly would have the new roms. So the only way you could break this rule (knowingly upload an older rom set) was if you had the new roms which you would use anyway. Thus anytime you broke the rule you wouldn't really know it. It takes some doing to actually figure out you have the romset, usually it's after the fact you've made the recording and thus not really a responsibility thing unless you are keeping uptodate with roms at all times (not really a requirement we should impose.)
Btw, these both playback correctly to advertised scores with latest snowbros roms and XP, but are below regulation average speed of 90%.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:32 pm
by Buttermaker
Chad wrote:I disagree, if you were that intelligent about knowing that your current romset was out of date then you proly would have the new roms. So the only way you could break this rule (knowingly upload an older rom set) was if you had the new roms which you would use anyway. Thus anytime you broke the rule you wouldn't really know it.
Why would it matter whether you know it or not?
It takes some doing to actually figure out you have the romset, usually it's after the fact you've made the recording and thus not really a responsibility thing unless you are keeping uptodate with roms at all times (not really a requirement we should impose.)
Of course it should be imposed. Why should somebody with up to date ROMs go looking for old ROMs if he wants to watch a recording? I'm not talking about old recordings. I mean uploads should be made with up to date ROMs only.
Btw, these both playback correctly to advertised scores with latest snowbros roms
The snowbros ROMs changed in .75. If you play this back in .70 this happens:
Code: Select all
Playing back previously recorded game snowbros (Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom (set 1))
[press return]
ch0 NOT FOUND
ch1 NOT FOUND
ch2 NOT FOUND
ch3 NOT FOUND
ERROR: required files are missing, the game cannot be run.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:15 pm
by Chad
Buttermaker wrote:Chad wrote:I disagree, if you were that intelligent about knowing that your current romset was out of date then you proly would have the new roms. So the only way you could break this rule (knowingly upload an older rom set) was if you had the new roms which you would use anyway. Thus anytime you broke the rule you wouldn't really know it.
Why would it matter whether you know it or not?
because right now you are making recordings on roms that are GOING to change and you don't know it, should your recordings now be disqualified? The other point is that he made these recordings a long time ago and uploaded them now. They would have been accepted with out question with the rule you mention if they were uploaded when tgmame70 was the latest and greatest, why disqualify them now? (other than dq them for slowdown i mean...)
Buttermaker wrote:It takes some doing to actually figure out you have the romset, usually it's after the fact you've made the recording and thus not really a responsibility thing unless you are keeping uptodate with roms at all times (not really a requirement we should impose.)
Of course it should be imposed. Why should somebody with up to date ROMs go looking for old ROMs if he wants to watch a recording? I'm not talking about old recordings. I mean uploads should be made with up to date ROMs only.
because mame changes roms, it's a fact of life.
Buttermaker wrote:Btw, these both playback correctly to advertised scores with latest snowbros roms
The snowbros ROMs changed in .75. If you play this back in .70 this happens:
Code: Select all
Playing back previously recorded game snowbros (Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom (set 1))
[press return]
ch0 NOT FOUND
ch1 NOT FOUND
ch2 NOT FOUND
ch3 NOT FOUND
ERROR: required files are missing, the game cannot be run.
this didn't happen for me using tgmame70, so i'm assuming the new rom "update" removed these files, i don't remove old roms from my roms if they are not replacements. this is probably fault of a rom manager not the uploader.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:17 pm
by Buttermaker
Chad wrote:because right now you are making recordings on roms that are GOING to change and you don't know it, should your recordings now be disqualified?
Of course not! I already said it in this thread but I'm gonna repeat it for you: If a recording was made with up to date ROMs at the time it was uploaded everything is all right.
The other point is that he made these recordings a long time ago and uploaded them now.
Well, that's his problem. Maybe in this case you could say he used up to date ROMs when he made the recording so it's all right but still...
They would have been accepted with out question with the rule you mention if they were uploaded when tgmame70 was the latest and greatest,
correct
why disqualify them now?
Should such a rule be implemented we'd have to think about what to do in such a case.
(other than dq them for slowdown i mean...)
Hehe, the reason I wanted to watch it was because he mentioned fskp 0 in his description. I expected it to be too slow.
because mame changes roms, it's a fact of life.
That makes sense for old uploads but not for current uploads.
this didn't happen for me using tgmame70, so i'm assuming the new rom "update" removed these files, i don't remove old roms from my roms if they are not replacements. this is probably fault of a rom manager not the uploader.
Somebody who keeps a perfect set won't be able to play it back. Imagine everybody upped inps using old roms only...
So why not just use up to date ROMs?
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:39 pm
by Chad
yeah in a perfect world everyone would have uptodate roms, but we can't expect that from everyone (that's what the rule would impose), that's almost like forcing people to download roms all the time. It can be quite an addiction anyway, so making a rule to warrant it would be immoral :)
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:26 pm
by Weehawk
This isn't the first time a ROM has been changed. What was done in the past?
And Chad, why do you have a photo of Innuendo as your av?
viewtopic.php?p=18502#18502
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:00 am
by Chad
there are no rules currently for using old roms because it will always happen.
because it's a cool picture :) and why is indiana jones mimicing innuendo?
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:30 am
by Weehawk
Chad wrote:because it's a cool picture
and why is indiana jones mimicing innuendo?
Sure it's not the other way around?
Amazing. I hadn't even noticed that.
Snow Bros recordings
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:21 am
by RJM
I had to reply to this one as IMHO (I could be wrong) these two recordings tag me as a cheat.
For the record. My PC is a 4 year old Celeron 433 which is basically a piece of crap and, for the benifit of those who will say "buy a new computer" I cannot afford to replace it at this time. For the record, wolfmame 76 takes over 2 minutes from selecting a game to anything actually happening, A major pain in the butt IMHO but unavoidable for now.
I've been sitting on these two recordings for close to six months due to not being able to submit anything on a dial up modem.
This is obviously no excuse, but I don't wish to be put in the same category as WRX2 or Preload who had speed issues.
Due to this, I obviously will delete both offending recordings, as for my previous submissions, the jury's still out but a decision will be made within 24 hours, and will refrain from submitting anything further until I strike it rich and can afford to buy a new PC.
My apologies to anyone who may be offended by either the above post or the offending recordings.
Robert Macauley (RJM)
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:49 pm
by Chad
no worries, everyone thinks it was an honest mistake (and your email proves that even more) i'll bet you could get 100% by using autoframeskip recording again on the old pc, unless you were doing that already :)
besides if you didn't submit thoss recordings we would have never gotten to see indiana "INNUENDO" jones (see above) :lol:
Out of date CHDs
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:35 pm
by Buttermaker
aarongiles.com wrote:Well, just in time for Thanksgiving, we have a new CHD format. The next version of MAME will require you to update your CHDs. Now don't worry, you can do it yourself using the chdman utility (formerly known as hdcomp).
Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:00 am
by RJM
Just recorded this last night. Snow Bros ( older romset: snowbros) using win35tg3 set on a constant frameskip 4. This should satisfy the speed issues I had before as it stays in the mid to high 90% range for pretty much the whole game. Due to having to use the older rom set I won't upload this recording but if anyone's interested I've attached it here.
Hey Santa. Whattabout a new PC in that sack of yours?
RJM