New Olympic-Standings style leaderboard

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

Moderator: BBH

Do you want a leaderboard in which members are ranked by first place recordings first, then by second places, etc..etc..?

Poll ended at Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:27 pm

Yes, let's settle this whole issure by implementing this simple system.
32
60%
No, lets continue with the process of deciding how leaderboard points are allocated.
21
40%
 
Total votes : 53

New Olympic-Standings style leaderboard

Postby Weehawk » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:27 pm

The proposition has been offered and immediately welcomed by some that the leaderboard simply list members by the number of first place recordings, ties being broken by second place recordings, then by third place recordings etc...

This is not a system which in itself makes much sense to me, but I will vote for it just because it basically scraps the leaderboard system causing so much controversy, at the very least it eliminates leaderboard points.

If it fails we will resume from where we were before.

I'm setting this up for 7 days, but if the outcome becomes obvious enough, I may end early.
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Postby Chad » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:46 pm

sorry john i'm picking on you again... this is another misleading vote in a biased favor of change: by saying no here we dont' have to "continue" the discusion we can just end it and leave things unchanged and settle it easily that way, i.e. the YES vote will get votes of people that just don't care about the leaderboard and want to stop the discusion rather than really wanting a olympic style leaderboard. but i guess people can see that with out me bringing it up :)
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Postby Weehawk » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:56 pm

Chad wrote:but i guess people can see that with out me bringing it up :)

But since you did, we're double covered. :)

And as for being biased in favor of the first option, I pointed out very clearly:
Weehawk wrote:This is not a system which in itself makes much sense to me,

Even though I voted for it and explained why.

I have bent over backwards to try to avoid any bias I may have from affecting the outcome.
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Postby Chad » Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:02 pm

Weehawk wrote:I have bent over backwards to try to avoid any bias I may have from affecting the outcome.


thanks, just trying to act as a check and balance.
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Postby LordGaz » Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:07 pm

I voted yes. It makes sense because then only inps that make 1st place are worth uploading which is the way it should be.

If you can't get first place keep it to yourself until you can.

Cheers, Gaz.
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Postby MrBunny » Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:48 pm

If you can't get first place keep it to yourself until you can


...unless mrbunny can't play back the top score, then go ahead and upload your best recording.

This applies to all mac top scores, all DOS top scores, and all unsecure versions of mame (just don't see why they keep getting uploaded), and all scores which use questionable leeching tactics to gain huge scores which discourage a second place upload which may be of better skill. And I don't fricking stretch my mame, either.



Just look at the fricking top 3 of combat, all four years old or more, none of them secure, the top score is fricking leeching, any other play tactic is unavailable to me because of the frickin DOS version. Pass a 1st,2nd,3rd place leaderboard, and you're gonna have hundreds of leech-debates and secure-Mame debates with uploaders who are long-gone and have never heard of alphamame. Happy Easter.
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Postby The TJT » Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:13 pm

...But don't need to have debates about same issues for a 15th place recording because it takes away somebodys lb points :D
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Postby boxster » Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:23 pm

Chad wrote:the YES vote will get votes of people that just don't care about the leaderboard and want to stop the discusion rather than really wanting a olympic style leaderboard.:)


Very true. That being the case, I expect that "Yes" will win overwhelmingly. To many, it seems easier to just scrap the whole thing.

To those who feel that this is the best solution - you do realize that this is going to discourage a significant number of people from bothering to upload .inps, right? Scrapping the points system for individual games (by eliminating the leaderboard point system altogether) will remove a primary reason why people upload stuff to MARP in the first place.
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Postby lippsman » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:22 pm

I just can't support this. We need more than first place. I believe it will have the effect of good recordings not uploaded just because they are not in first place. I still say the top 5 is just fine. Or even take it to 7. I know people will upload scores just so they can get leaderboard points. But, I really would like to see more than the top score. Honestly, if a second or third place doesn't count on the leaderboard, it takes quite a bit of fun out for me. There are some games that you just won't get the top score on. But if you shoot a fantastic 2nd or 3rd place, you should get something for it.........And for the secure issue with the inp's. Have a leaderboard that just has secure versions of Mame on it. I'm not saying discount all of the non secure version scores, but have a board with just secure versions.

Well anyway...........

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Postby sikraiken » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:25 pm

boxster wrote:
Chad wrote:the YES vote will get votes of people that just don't care about the leaderboard and want to stop the discusion rather than really wanting a olympic style leaderboard.:)


Very true. That being the case, I expect that "Yes" will win overwhelmingly. To many, it seems easier to just scrap the whole thing.

To those who feel that this is the best solution - you do realize that this is going to discourage a significant number of people from bothering to upload .inps, right? Scrapping the points system for individual games (by eliminating the leaderboard point system altogether) will remove a primary reason why people upload stuff to MARP in the first place.


As it is, not a whole lot of people upload to MARP (in my opinion, atleast). Something needs to be done about that as well...
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Postby zlk » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:32 pm

This olympic system seems fine. If people think their replay is worth seeing, they will still upload even if its not in first place. It also encourages people who like the leaderboard to fight for their 1st place scores.
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Postby Francois Daniel » Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:22 pm

I hope this simple and logical system win. I vote Yes.

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Postby Zwaxy » Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:39 pm

I was curious to see what the leaderboard would look like using this 'olympic style' system, so I wrote a script to work it out.

The script currently updates a text-only version of the leaderboard every 15 minutes. You can see it here:

http://marp.retrogames.com/olympic.txt

Comments?
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Postby LN2 » Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:03 am

John,

I don't get this poll and thread at all.

You had step #1 and step #2 polls to get a general sense of what MARPers want and now have done a 180 and want only a simple leaderboard based only on placings(no point system at all) when the first and second steps show that the current system or something close to that(definitely a point system) is what MARPers want.

Explain this 180. Were steps/polls 1 and 2 and those older thread discussions a total waste of time and meant nothing?!?

You might as well totally remove the leaderboard if you are going to just reduce it to nothing but sorting by #firsts, then #seconds to break ties, etc.

When I first joined MARP, I viewed the leaderboard as showing who the main players were. I can EASILY judge for myself by looking at the number of each places for each player and overall point average how great they are. Only a foolish person would think the leaderboard directly shows who the best players are.

I view the leaderboard as the players who have CONTRIBUTED the most to MARP. This doesn't mean the top listed ones are necessarily the best players, but that they have overall contributed more.

I think someone with only 10 first places and nothing else hasn't contributed nearly as much as someone with 9 first places and 50 second and third place scores. To list the 10 first places above someone on the leaderboard with 9-50-50 is ridiculous.

If you want something like that as an OPTION for viewing the leaderboard in addition to the current sort criteria, fine.

That system would seem to also discourage many from even bothering competing for a game unless they can beat the top score.

Something is lost there....especially when tons of top scores are with old versions of mame very few ever use anymore...except to attempt to playback those replays...often without success.

Not many like having to revert to mame36 or older just to watch some 3+ year old replay file. Even if you have that how many have the roms for those old versions for all games? ...not many other than the editors and perhaps a couple confirmers.

...so having lower place scores using more modern versions makes sense for most.

Any "olympic" leaderboard system would discourage that. it also might have it where for many rom sets unless they were used in a tournament or bounty etc. they would have 1-2 top scores and nothing else since there is little to ZERO point to submit even a 3rd place score in this suggested simple leaderboard system. That's bad IMHO.

The top scores become more significant when you see several other scores to get a better concept of what an average gamer can score on the game plus perhaps see some who have attempted to beat those top scores yet fell short. Those are important IMHO.

This simple leaderboard might result in none of those types of replays and scores being submitted.
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Postby SprintGod » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:28 am

:D
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