Metal Slug

Discussion of playback questions / problems. Any recording where people have playback problems should appear here.

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MKL
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Metal Slug

Post by MKL » Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:50 pm

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

Never got to playback an inp correctly... I was told to playback BBH's with sound off but that didn't solve the problem...maybe nvram has something to do with this (if its deletion wasn't obligatory yet)...none of the recordings have been confirmed so far and they're quite old...

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Post by BBH » Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:11 am

there was no NVRAM in that version.

as for playing it back, we never did figure out what the deal was with it... sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. play it back without sound, if it loses sync, try it again.

For the record, my score WAS confirmed during T5, but hasn't been confirmed on regular MARP for whatever reason.

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Post by Phil Lamat » Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:34 am

I was the one who confirmed BBH's score in the tourney ; in fact it playbacked fine for me till the end with sound=0 the first time I tried it ; then I never managed to playback it till the end an other time :(

Maybe adding -frameskip 0 when recording would solve the problem ?

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Post by Chad » Sat Mar 30, 2002 11:45 pm

Trying bbhs recording with dosmame35tg3b with frameskip 0 no throttling i got it to playback until it went out of synch at 714k. I tried autoframeskip no throttling with dosmame35tg3b and it barely got half of that.

So what should the rule be for games we know we (or someone) confirmed to playback but can't confirm now? I'm thinking any recording that sometimes playsback we should treat as doesn't playback, but what does everyone else think?
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Post by The TJT » Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:48 pm

If it's been confirmed earlier, maybe it should not be deleted at all. If you want to see what happens in that game, play 2:nd position recording.

Maybe good rule here is: no rule, only common sense: If a player has been absent for long time/ how good is that score(easy for a player to make another recording) I would not like to try better some of my toughest scores/ ask a player if he wants to make a new recording etc

It's all about highscores not playbackability! Everybody simply can't playback all the recordings because of different machine configurations.

I can not playback Krogman's 5M galaga recording, but I know hes done it, seen him do much better in person.

And remember, allways email the player in question first.

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Post by Chad » Sun Mar 31, 2002 3:27 pm

the question is not weather the person has made the score in question! i've made hundreds of inps with flipshot and i know i did them but does the inp playback? NO, not consistantly. (i've gotten maybe two inps to playback once or twice but after that they never playback), I KNOW i've made the recording that achieved a 250k score, but WHY should i submit it to marp and cause lots of frustration for people trying to see what abilities i used to score 250k in flipshot. I don't give a freaking damn being top on the game list, if i can't prove i made (and how i made) the recording legitimatley.

Does any one else really want marp leader board points that much that they'd upload a useless inp file that means little more than what score they played it at? that kind of information is strictly for a high score site. Is marp a highscore site? IMHO it's an inp site...

And as for cleaning out recordings that can't be playedback by others, i'm not talking about zeroing out mac recordings, which i'll proly never be able to playback, i'm assuming someday we'll have some mac confirmers which will be able to tell if mac recordings playback or not and then they'll make that decision. Or if you only have mame32 and they they can't playback a dos recording, the dos recording stays since you proly can play it back in dos. I'm talking about recordings where you record a certain game with a certain platform that someone else (usually the recorder too) can't play the inp back with the same mame, platform and settings. those inps are totally useless and deserve to go in the great inp bucket in the sky.

For tourmanent recordings like bbh, they will definitley stand since they were confirmed during the time of the tournament, but as marp regular recordings, why bother, since if they can't playback now they may never be able to be played back causing to many future headaches.
-skito

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Post by The TJT » Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:49 am

All I'm saying is don't delete confirmed recordings too lightly. If four person can't playback, maybe next four can.

Kindly,

Tommi

P.S. What is leaderboard?[/i]

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Post by Chad » Tue Apr 02, 2002 12:52 pm

understood. this forum is providing a nice medium, so we can totally argue it out wheather things do playback or don't. It's turning out to be supremely usefull to posting a playback question here and not rely on just the uploader to verify said recordings play back. If the minor consensus is in favor of playback, the recording remains confirmed, if the major consensus is in favor of no plaback the recording is edited, mail is given, and a link is provided to the url with the discussion on the forum.
-skito

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Post by Kale » Thu Apr 04, 2002 11:28 am

The TJT wrote:P.S. What is leaderboard?[/i]
It's an arcade/c64/amiga golf game
http://unmamed.mame.net/non_other80.htm ... eaderboard


Nice game ;)




By the way,Mac recordings CAN be played back into other platforms,especially if the game doesn't have rands...

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Post by mahlemiut » Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:21 pm

Kale wrote:By the way,Mac recordings CAN be played back into other platforms,especially if the game doesn't have rands...
And certainly only if the CPU cores are the same, which is impossible for 68000 and Z80, as the DOS and Win32 version default to the ASM cores which no non-x86 machine can run. The C and ASM Z80 cores may very well be compatible with each other, but the two 68k cores most definitely aren't.

Also, I never knew that there was an arcade version of Leaderboard.
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Post by smame » Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:29 am

NEOGEO has a real-time-clock. When you start NEOGEO games, MAME initializes it by PC clock. BTW, Some games use RTC to generate random numbers. So you can't playback recordings eveytime.

IMO, we have to ban NEOGEO games. Or we have to use MARPMAME(disabled RTC).

Kaillera uses inp feature for network playing. Beforce I disabled NEOGEO RTC, we can't play NEOGEO games. But I disabled it, we can play perfectly.

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Post by BBH » Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:32 am

smame wrote: IMO, we have to ban NEOGEO games. Or we have to use MARPMAME(disabled RTC).
Uhhhhhhhhh.... no

There are plenty of Neo-Geo games that playback just fine even when the dates don't match.

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Post by mahlemiut » Sun Apr 07, 2002 7:09 am

It is certainly possible that the real time clock on the Neo Geo could be used as a random seed, although it is quite clear that many games do not.

Banning all Neo Geo games is certainly rather drastic action.
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Post by Chad » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:00 pm

in total it doesn't matter how random seeds are initialized (clock, input timings, hiscore files), the main problem here is the mame program doesn't save the seeds it uses when recording the inp file, if it did there might actually be a lot less playbackabiliy problems. But to eliminate frustration for all, we will certainly ban "those" neogeo games that use seeds and don't acurately represent then in playback, however there are very few neogeo games that do this, and most only do it on a certain version (range) of mame. most neogeos do playback fine, please do tell which one's you [smame] are having a problem with.
-skito

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Post by smame » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:41 pm

Following games have RTC problem

Metal Slug series
KOF series
Samurai Showdown series
Quiz KOF
Ninja Commando
(The Last Blade/2 ?)
(Twinkle Star Sprites ?)


Following games don't have any problems

Fatal Fury series
Garou MOW


I don't know other games. (no one played others at kaillera)

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