Can anyone verify this?
I played the inp and it's score is 5520.
Am I vefiry it wrong? This driver don´t change since version 36b10 and this record if mac37.
In the description says round 70, but this game has 70 rounds????
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/kys_drgn ... _mac36.zip
Thx
kys_drgnbstr_4981970_mac36.zip
Moderator: Chad
Given I thought you were trying to confirm that score, I played it on my mac.
It doesn't play to the score given but it did play to 2,971,590!
I have offered to confirm macmame submissions for MARP but would want them to find another mac person that would at least confirm my scores for games that don't playback on other platform mames.
For most games, the inp playback is specific for that macmame. There are some games where the input playback is compatible cross-platform.
I usually test mine for games I haven't tried before in VirtualPC on my mac to see if the inp is cross-platform compatible. It doesn't perform well enough in VPC to play it there though.
It doesn't play to the score given but it did play to 2,971,590!
I have offered to confirm macmame submissions for MARP but would want them to find another mac person that would at least confirm my scores for games that don't playback on other platform mames.
For most games, the inp playback is specific for that macmame. There are some games where the input playback is compatible cross-platform.
I usually test mine for games I haven't tried before in VirtualPC on my mac to see if the inp is cross-platform compatible. It doesn't perform well enough in VPC to play it there though.
i'll go ahead and change the score to 2,971,590 (provided that you [Rick] used mac37b10 to try it), because of the inactivity of mac recordings, one person attempting to playing it back is a much larger percentage of confirming clout than on the dos side. The dos side has the 3 person un-confirm rule, 3 people must not be able to playback a recording in order for a final change, 3 people (including the recorder) can say they've played it back with the given settings to undo the un-confirm). sound ok to you Rick to have a one person confirm/deny rule on the mac side because of the low numbers, otherwise we'll have recordings there that will just never be good and people may never learn to make playbackable recordings?
-skito
Yes, I played it back using macmame 0.37b10. Just like with PCmames almost all inp recordings only playback correctly on the same version used to record. Interestingly though there is no issue with macmame playing back inps in OS X or OS 9. They are compatible in both MacOSes. Therefore all mac users that can run that particular version of macmame should be able to view any macmame inp just fine. I was out of the room briefly to make lunch(at the 2.8 million mark) when the game actually ended during the 2-3 minutes I was out of the room so I didn't get to see exactly what happened at the end. It might have lost sync. Even with my speed throttle off it took more than 1 hour for that puppy to play out...although I had left my audio on.Chad wrote:i'll go ahead and change the score to 2,971,590 (provided that you [Rick] used mac37b10 to try it)
Is that saying if someone for dmame/winmame/mame32/alphamame for example played back the inp to the score submitted so originally confirmed it then later 3 others can't view the inp properly or it doesn't playback to the same score then it is zeroed out or the score adjusted? It seems even if 1 other for any PC mame can play it back to the same score then even if 3+ others can't to me that isn't enough to un-confirm it especially if they aren't running the same OS or mame settings like frameskip and audio etc. as the one that got it to playback correctly. As you know some games the inp playback is really difficult even playing it back on the same system. I have a few recordings I have made where it takes 4-5 attempts to play it back before it finally plays back in sync. I have no idea what causes this for a few games cuz I'm not changing a thing between runs....just reloading the game each attempt to playback the inp. Although in those cases I'm sure experienced confirmers already know the finicky games for playback or the player should have a comment on it in his submission comments.because of the inactivity of mac recordings, one person attempting to playing it back is a much larger percentage of confirming clout than on the dos side. The dos side has the 3 person un-confirm rule, 3 people must not be able to playback a recording in order for a final change, 3 people (including the recorder) can say they've played it back with the given settings to undo the un-confirm). sound ok to you Rick to have a one person confirm/deny rule on the mac side because of the low numbers
Does your above proposal for mac mean if 1 person(ie. me) could playback an inp correctly then 1 other can't then that overrules my ability to correctly view the inp for confirmation? That doesn't seem right.
Well, in that case it seems you can't unconfirm an inp that has never been confirmed....or am I missing something there? If MARP really wants to support this I can out together a page for macmame to assist them in recording...although it's really all the same tips you have here. However, I wonder how many here have ever read those tips. The big tips really are having a fixed frameskip for recordings and moving or deleting the nvram folder so nv files aren't saved.otherwise we'll have recordings there that will just never be good and people may never learn to make playbackable recordings?
If I were to become a macmame confirmer(which I'm interested in doing) what is the next step? Also, how do I go about getting someone else to confirm my scores since I obviously can't confirm my own. hehe I see a few have their e-mail shown also so I might e-mail them asking them if they are interested etc. However, I wanted to check with you guys plus learn what the next step is etc. Plus, actually your guys should recruit another macmame confirmer cuz if I did it then someone could always say that person was a friend of mine etc. which I wouldn't want.
Yes, there aren't many macmame players that submit scores here but there are more than a few. You can use the search here to search for "mac" in the description and a separate search for mac36 as the version used to get a quick list of mac players...that also have submitted within last 6 months so are active. From what I have read at the macmame forums(which actually get as much or more activity then these forums) most feel MARP just doesn't support mac or don't think it does cuz in the submit form the only mac version listed is 36. We don't need many versions listed...I think 36, 58, and 60a would do it as that is what most macmamers use. Brad is currently working on macmame 0.64(or 0.65 if the pc version of that is released soon). I have no idea how long it will be before that version is done. Many also don't feel MARP is very useful to them since most inp recordings are on PCs and don't playback correctly on macs. I have tried to say that they can still use it as a scoreboard and rank themselves against PC players. Many seem to just want to rank themselves versus other macmame players for whatever reason.
I think it's where if we actually have a few macmame versions listed on the submit page and macmame confirmers that more will be interested and start submitting scores here. There was a macmame scoreboard actually in the past...but was stopped last summer. It was all done by 1 guy and he was tired of doing it. It only used screenshots for confirmation anyway so wasn't a scoreboard I was interested in participating...plus then you don't really know how you stack up against the world.
So...how do we proceed? ...assuming we proceed.
Not YET anyway :)LN2 wrote:Yes, I played it back using macmame 0.37b10. Just like with PCmames almost all inp recordings only playback correctly on the same version used to record. Interestingly though there is no issue with macmame playing back inps in OS X or OS 9.
Yes.LN2 wrote:Is that saying if someone for dmame/winmame/mame32/alphamame for example played back the inp to the score submitted so originally confirmed it then later 3 others can't view the inp properly or it doesn't playback to the same score then it is zeroed out or the score adjusted?
No, two people playing it back succesfully (beside the recorder) is required to un-un-confirm because the one person saying they played it back fine could still be at fault in that he didn't try playing it back twice, some games can playback once in a lifetime and never playback again because of seeding the random number generator incorrectly (soon to be fixed in newer mames i think.) So, if one person was able to play it back correctly and 3 others wouldn't the three others have ample chance to use the one persons mame.ini/cfg and if none of them can still play it back it should remain denied. Marp does not need recordings that playback once even out of 4 or 5 attempts, we can be patient and wait till mame is fixed before we allow such impotent recordings.LN2 wrote:It seems even if 1 other for any PC mame can play it back to the same score then even if 3+ others can't to me that isn't enough to un-confirm it especially if they aren't running the same OS or mame settings like frameskip and audio etc. as the one that got it to playback correctly.
yeah, true, but if we don't adopt a plan like this why even have a marp for mac? if someone uploads a recording that someone else can't see the action replaying out of, it seems kind of pointless to post a score that the "general mac public" (being that one person wanted to see it) can't see played out. most recording problems are SIMPLE to fix (i.e. nvram or games that need or can't have sound to record), so the confirm/deny rule is mostly to get the communcation out before someone starts uploading tons of recordings that won't playback because of lack of reading the rules. I'm only thinking this rule should be used untill we have more mac mame users, once we have more then we can change it to more people (2/3) agreeing that it must be unconfirmed.LN2 wrote:Does your above proposal for mac mean if 1 person(ie. me) could playback an inp correctly then 1 other can't then that overrules my ability to correctly view the inp for confirmation? That doesn't seem right.
Are you a confirmer right now? I guess you (and someone else in the mac world) should be. Ask ***PL***, pat, for that. Marp is open to all recordings for all oses provided they playback consistantly with known settings/oses. And Barry can add the macmame versions to the list. Lets hope Brad gets the version with the new random number generator, it's possible that could help some issues between pc/mac but the architecture is another thing to get around. It certainly would be nice if mac.inps had a header, (still don't understand why they lost the header, it's such an OLD mame thing to not have a header in the inp, almost like they are not using the same code base) with out it there's no way it'll ever be compatible.LN2 wrote:If I were to become a macmame confirmer(which I'm interested in doing) what is the next step? Also, how do I go about getting someone else to confirm my scores since I obviously can't confirm my own. hehe I see a few have their e-mail shown also so I might e-mail them asking them if they are interested etc. However, I wanted to check with you guys plus learn what the next step is etc. Plus, actually your guys should recruit another macmame confirmer cuz if I did it then someone could always say that person was a friend of mine etc. which I wouldn't want.
-skito
In those cases if that is the case with a certain game then that game should be archived until a future mame does play it back reliably IMHO. I'm sure you have archived a few because of that already. If a game's inp plays back reliably in pcmames then it should in macmame also.Chad wrote: Marp does not need recordings that playback once even out of 4 or 5 attempts, we can be patient and wait till mame is fixed before we allow such impotent recordings.
Well, I view MARP 2 ways. It is a repository for recordings for various games. Anyone can download the inp and watch it to see how it's done etc. However, the other part of MARP is it does serve as a scoreboard where you can show and compare your scores against those from all over the world that have submitted scores here.yeah, true, but if we don't adopt a plan like this why even have a marp for mac?
I think of the 6 months I have been a MARP member, I have only viewed a handful of inps. That is just because I generally just view the scores and see what I have to beat. I personally think it's cheap for some games like Loderunner or tons of other games you can download and watch the inp of someone else to learn the patterns to complete the levels then play it yourself and submit a high score also. I develop my skills for a game from my own play...not based on someone else's.
Therefore, I put more weight on MARP being a scoreboard than it being a library of inps that anyone can view.
Yes, this point is valid. However, I would hope the confirmer or person that couldn't play it back correctly would have tried a few options or would have contacted the player or macmame confirmer if a confirmed score to see exactly what macmame settings were used to get the inp to playback correctly.kind of pointless to post a score that the "general mac public" (being that one person wanted to see it) can't see played out. most recording problems are SIMPLE to fix (i.e. nvram or games that need or can't have sound to record)
Many macmame players...as I'm sure PCmame players as well, aren't aware of the tricks to ensure good inp recording and playback or just viewing someone else's inp. MARP has that info but not where it's easily seen. Given MARP is based on inps the welcome message you get from MARP after you first sign up should have info on the main tips for inp recording or a link to the page that has all of that. The same advice you give for PCmames is exactly what macmame players need to do also. I have no NVRAM folder. I always use a fixed frameskip. Those 2 are the big ones. That would cover 95+% of the games.
Oh, I agree there. I'm guessing confirmers if unable to playback an inp on that same mame version e-mails the user though to get more info or ask if nvram or auto-frameskip or what specific frameskip was used etc. That would take care of someone making the same mistake in future recordings they perhaps made on that first one or few.so the confirm/deny rule is mostly to get the communcation out before someone starts uploading tons of recordings that won't playback because of lack of reading the rules.
There aren't many games that are picky overall for playback. Of all the games I have submitted to MARP only 1 is quite picky on playback and takes a few attempts before it plays back correctly. You can tell if it is within the first 5-10 seconds though so it only takes 30-60 seconds to do multiple attempts to see if it's "ok" that time. I'm sure it's the same way on the PC side also.
Nope, I'm not. I have inquired about it in these forums previously but didn't get any helpful info of how to proceed. I'll check the site to see what it states for becoming a confirmer. I also had pointed out in these forums only mac36 was listed and it would be nice to list 58 and 60 also. I got replies saying that was pointless cuz only a couple mac users submit here. Well, perhaps seeing only mac36 and no macmame confirmers is part of the problem there.Are you a confirmer right now? I guess you (and someone else in the mac world) should be. Ask ***PL***, pat, for that. Marp is open to all recordings for all oses provided they playback consistantly with known settings/oses. And Barry can add the macmame versions to the list.
Is that 0.64 or 0.65 with that added?Lets hope Brad gets the version with the new random number generator, it's possible that could help some issues between pc/mac but the architecture is another thing to get around.
Yeah, I have commented about that at the macmame forums. There is no reason really to change the inp file format versus what it is on PCmames. My guess is perhaps with the mame updates he hasn't bothered noticing or caring about that change to the inp format as for macmame it really doesn't matter. Given he is working on 0.64 currently I'll point that out to him to check for the current inp file format and please use that for macmame also.It certainly would be nice if mac.inps had a header, (still don't understand why they lost the header, it's such an OLD mame thing to not have a header in the inp, almost like they are not using the same code base) with out it there's no way it'll ever be compatible.
Brad seems to generally do his own thing though and doesn't really care about cross-platform compatibility. I think for many games the inp playback not working isn't cuz of some random number generation, but because of that missing header or because like I have noticed in many games, the bytes are swapped as written to the file. It seems this is specific to certain game CPU cores as for some games the macmame inp plays back fine on other platforms.
xmame(whatever the latest for that was) has been ported to OS X to work within Apple's X11 for OS X. I have not tried it yet though to see how well it runs. It will take a bit to just learn how to properly build and get it running. If inps in that xmame are compatible with xmame for linux on PCs for games that where regular macmame isn't compatible, that right there shows it's within a few cpu cores he has the bytes swapped which results in them being swapped in the inp.
For example, for a marble madness inp, any PC inp of that attempted to be played in macmame just results in the game going into service mode. If a macmame inp of that is played in any pcmame that results in same thing. However, for 1 inp I removed 8 bytes near the beginning to make the initial input data align properly and then it did playback correctly at least for the first maze instead of going into service mode. It got out of sync on the 2nd maze but that likely was cuz the shift I had done to the input resulting in a close-call where the slightly shifted time of the input resulted in my ball hitting that ball and getting knocked off whereas in the actual game I barely missed it. Anyway it was an interesting test.
It seems most likely the inp compatibility issues will generally remain for macmame. I'll see what the site says about becoming a confirmer etc. and contact one of those guys. I think if we got a couple macmame confirmers and had the submit page showing the few mainly used macmame versions announcing that at the macmame forums would perhaps get a few more participating in MARP. More participation is a good thing.