Subroc3d (tar)

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:23 am

This is not played with default settings. Default dip switch for extra ship is set at 80k pts, but tar has changed it to 40k.

Default settings for this game haven't changed since mame60.

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/6/5/3/ta ... mame60.zip

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:30 pm

the point is mute because he doesnt get another extra ship at 40k*2=80k, the extra ship is a one time event. :)

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:51 pm

Chad wrote:the point is mute because he doesnt get another extra ship at 40k*2=80k, the extra ship is a one time event.

I haven't watched it, but if the point is moot then I presume he never got down to a single ship left between 40k and 80k?

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 12:34 am

correct, sorry didn't mention that, the point is def and dumb :)

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:05 am

Did I understand this right: So I can change the extra life dipswitch to 20.000 (lowest possible) as long as I have more than 1 life at 80.000?!?

Is this allowed in all games?

If so, this is going to make many games easier for me. If not otherwise then psychologically.

Chad wrote:the point is mute because he doesnt get another extra ship at 40k*2=80k, the extra ship is a one time event.

I can't really follow your logic here... I know it's a one time event. Are you saying it doesn't make any difference to the games difficulty if you get that one extra ship at 20k or 80k?

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:08 am

Changing the dipswitshes from default to anything than TG settings (or harder) is against the rules. I admit that it doesn´t matter on some games, but a rule is a rule right?

Note:I´m talking about difficulty here. Like extra lives, diff of levels etc. Not turning blood on in mslug, or different type of language etc.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:18 am

QRS wrote:Changing the dipswitshes from default to anything than TG settings (or harder) is against the rules. I admit that it doesn´t matter on some games, but a rule is a rule right?

Exactly. Rule 2h says:

"Recording submissions must be recorded with that particular ROMset's defaults or TG (Twin Galaxies) settings. A recording set at easier or different settings is subject to deletion, especially if it is higher than others at more difficult settings."

QRS wrote:Note:I´m talking about difficulty here. Like extra lives, diff of levels etc. Not turning blood on in mslug, or different type of language etc.

Of course. I have nothing against changing those kinds of settings either.

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:24 am

He should not have changed the settings.

I think the point, however, is what should be done about it in this case.

The result of the change in settings was that the got the single extra ship given at 40k rather than 80k. If he did not use that ship until after 80k (when he would have gotten it anyway), then in this particular case, he didn't technically benefit from it, except perhaps psychologically as diabolik suggests, but I think that is stretching the imagination a bit.

That being the case, I could understand warning the player and letting the score stand. I would prefer to avoid disqualification when possible.

On the other hand, this is a player who shows a proclivity for bending MARP's rules in pretzel-like fashion.

Guess the Regulation Coordinator or some editor has a judgement call to make here.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:43 am

Weehawk wrote: The result of the change in settings was that the got the single extra ship given at 40k rather than 80k. If he did not use that ship until after 80k (when he would have gotten it anyway), then in this particular case, he didn't technically benefit from it, except perhaps psychologically as diabolik suggests, but I think that is stretching the imagination a bit.

Yeah, but why would he change the settings in the first place if he doesn't somehow benefit from it? Just for the fun of changing them? If tar is reading this maybe he could answer...

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:55 am

The rule says "is subject to deletion", which to me, says that there is a possibility that it could be deleted, not that it will be for sure. If this were a tournament, then I'd say, yes, it should be deleted, as the settings are listed and should be adhered to strictly. This isn't a tournament, however, so a call needs to be made as to whether or not this makes the game easier. I don't know the game at all, so I can't really comment on it.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:13 am

Well, it makes the game easier "only" psychologically (you don't have to wait for the extra life so long).

This isn't really only about this one game. If you can set the dipswitch setting for extra life wherever you want, this decision will affect a lot of games!

Hypothetical question: if one person gets the extra life at 20k and the other at 80k and they both score lets say 100k, are they really playing the game of same difficulty?

BTW, I submitted a recording where the extra life is set at 20k. Is it OK?

tar · Post by **tar** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:11 am

I checked the dipswitch options on mame version 60.
80,000 is the correct setting.
I do not recall exactly why I changed it to 40,000.
Maybe I,ll try again at default.
Congratulations on reaching 160,000 (diabolik) !
I challenge you to try for my 2, 1st .inp's on buckrog, and buckrogn.
(1982 Sega 3d)
tar

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:25 am

tar wrote:Congratulations on reaching 160,000 (diabolik) !

Thanks!

tar wrote:I challenge you to try for my two first place scores on buckrog.
(1982 Sega 3d)

That's a cool game, but very hard for me. I'll see what I can do.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 1:06 pm

diabolik wrote:
Chad wrote:the point is mute because he doesnt get another extra ship at 40k*2=80k, the extra ship is a one time event. :)
I can't really follow your logic here... I know it's a one time event. Are you saying it doesn't make any difference to the games difficulty if you get that one extra ship at 20k or 80k?

It does make a "difference", but if you are comparing two recordings that both have already gone beyond the benefits of the extra ship (and as long as the game difficulty setting (ie. harder AI) is the same) there is no difference in them, and there's no reason to delete one because it got an extra ship at a different time if the recording didn't need it during the period that would have ended the game in the other setting. Yeah in theory changing settings could be grounds for removal, but i don't see a need for that since both recordings follow the rules even though the dip switches are different.

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 1:15 pm

In my opinion recordings like this should be deleted. Why have rules if we bend them all the time? Of course it might not matter this time, but what will happen next time? Maybe it is time that we are consistant about things here.... once in a while...