POLL : use of secure version

[The TJT]

Any old recordings should not and will not be zeroed. This poll is only for future recordings.
I will "hunt down and kill" any person who wants to zero my MAME36Final recordings. At the time it just was "the best"

And, rest assured, macmame submissions are safe.
Zwaxy told me very clearly some time back that all OS submissions are part of MARP. Zeroing any submissions based on OS is a BIG nono.

[Zhorik]

Any old recordings should not and will not be zeroed. This poll is only for future recordings.
I will "hunt down and kill" any person who wants to zero my MAME36Final recordings. At the time it just was "the best"

And, rest assured, macmame submissions are safe.
Zwaxy told me very clearly some time back that all OS submissions are part of MARP. Zeroing any submissions based on OS is a BIG nono.

So what's the point? The vast majority of the scores that would be "suspect" because they aren't WolfMAME would already be on the scoreboard. Frankly, MARP isn't incredibly active these days (a MUCH bigger concern of mine), so the vast majority of suspect scores will continue to be historical ones. Dan asked folks to name a single recent score that was suspect that WolfMAME would have caught. I can't. I can, however, name pre-Wolf scores that I'm convinced played with slowdown.

You'd still allow scores on an OS like the mac that 99% of MARP players can't playback to look for suspicious behavior, and wouldn't be in a "secure" version of MAME. If I want scores I can't watch the replay for, I'll go to Twin Galaxies.

I still like the idea of strongly encouraging players to use WolfMAME and using it in tournaments for the sake of standardization, but if elite Japanese players decide tomorrow they want to start submitting to MARP in EmeraldMAME, I say let 'em!

-George

PS - As Haze correctly pointed out, WolfMAME ain't terribly secure folks. If Mahlemiut stops releasing WolfMAME, would that mean that no submissions to MARP are allowed?

[LN2]

along this line....you guys know I have been using wolfmame the past 2 years....so if I suddenly started submitting a bunch of stuff with macmame60 or older, wouldn't that be suspicious?

ok, a gamer uses a 6-7 year old mame....tg35mame...for 1 game where all other submissions recently by that same gamer have been using wolfmame. that carries the same level of suspicion.


not that I suspect tar at all...I trust his scores.

[tar]

Hey , hello again soldiers.
This part of the house is some what crowded and i cannot use this system always. I like to tinker with old systems as well, they are more stable , reliable. This windows 2000 in my opinion is over worked and no longer user friendly.
Zhork is right on in observing the slow pace here at marp.
All that should be done is to make sure site adress remains the same.
Thanks to Destructor for recent donation to keep things up and running.
Also , Seymour for maintaining the board.
Happy 9th to M.A.R.P.
Viva Poland.

[welby1]

I think that's a good idea for wolf being req, but it will reduce submissions...especially without wolfmameplus(or any wolfmame32) being available here as it was for years. I tried the c-line with the 'simple front end', which crashes after every game(haven't tried it with the 'fix' yet; will wait till 114 and try again), and it just doesn't feel right. I like the options of the 'plus' version, and have no interest in messing with the c-line versions at all(in their current form). Anything after 106 from me is regular mame32, but one thing I don't like is that without the 'plus' version, I can't get it to quit using nvram(plus has a little box to check, regular version it's not there...or it's well hidden where I can't find it).

As has been stated, if someone wants to cheat, they will find a way...and eventually get caught. I'll keep playing and submitting, provided c-line isn't forced down my throat, but if MARP goes wolf c-line only, then I'm out.

Why do we allow less that 100% speed for scores? How do I reduce my play speed to match another competitor? I can't say they are cheating to get higher(it's allowed), but the scores are higher than what I can get at 100%, so that's probably the difference, though it would be nice to find out firsthand.

Another issue I've had is getting a message that states no inp file during uploads when I tried to include the wolf file(got a few notes on that here and there), yet no problems submitting without including it...I'm sure I'm missing an easy one there, and am sure someone here would advise what I did/didn't do for that one here or via pm.

[destructor]

I think that's a good idea for wolf being req, but it will reduce submissions...

I don't think it. Look at the other replay sites in the whole world. All knows what is wolfmame and use it.

[DRN]

Wolfmame (or any mame for that matter) may not be secure granted, but I look at it this way. Wolfmame and Wolfmame alone should be required for submitting to MARP and if someone wants to go through all the trouble of hacking the source to get a high score, just so they get some recognition from people they'll never meet, then they deserve 1st place because their lives must be very empty. Case closed.

[Haze]

I still don't see the point.

All it would take is for ONE person to create a MAME build that can read a normal inp while writing a wolfmame inp and the whole system achieves NOTHING apart from having a site full of inps which aren't compatible with the baseline build.

If somebody makes such a build then anybody could use it, heck, they could make it so you could break into an inp and continue recording with different inputs, screw up level 3, no problem, playback and try again at that point. The resultant inp would still look fine, any time sigs etc, would still be intact, framerate counters would be correct assuming the machine could play it back at the correct speed etc. etc. yet the inp would be completely bogus.

Such a build wouldn't be violating any license agreement (providing they provided the full sources etc.) so you couldn't ask us to take it down, nor could you really ask for it to be taken down yourselves...

History has already shown that if you try and force things like this on people, then somebody will crack it, and while it's not something I'd actually do myself you can be pretty sure that somebody will IMO.

[LN2]

Why do we allow less that 100% speed for scores? How do I reduce my play speed to match another competitor?

cuz mame isn't perfect for throttling all of the time for some games...plus Windows interferes now and then so you can get a split-sec drop in speed etc.

so some games might run at 98-100% even if unthrottled your system can run it at 1500%.

also some games..the gameplay can be 100%..but then cut scenes or fancier music at end/start of scenes or intermissions might be lower speed..but doesn't influence the gameplay.

100% is too strong of an absolute.

95+% is fine for speed. for timed games, you could still use the #frames as the benchmark and not clock timing as then you could gain off of running a little faster versus another competitor.

the only way to really match speed of another is to be running at max mame emulates. if the hardware is much different though where one of you is using zero frameskip and the other 6 out of 12, then speed is matched but control feedback is not quite as smooth missing half the frames etc.

I would call trying tto intentionally run at anything other than 100% as an attempt to cheat though. if mame runs it at 98% or 102%...nothing we can do about it...sobeit.

[mahlemiut]

History has already shown that if you try and force things like this on people, then somebody will crack it, and while it's not something I'd actually do myself you can be pretty sure that somebody will IMO.

Dare I mention Neill Corlett again?

[The TJT]

History has already shown that if you try and force things like this on people, then somebody will crack it, and while it's not something I'd actually do myself you can be pretty sure that somebody will IMO.

No need for scare tactics, this aint US presidential election.

[Haze]

Scare tactics?

May I point you at the name mentioned in Barry's post? There is no reason at all to think it wouldn't be done again by somebody.

Personally I'd be in favor of banning anything but the baseline build of MAME on each platform.

[mahlemiut]

Personally I'd be in favor of banning anything but the baseline build of MAME on each platform.

Yeah, that'll work. Especially when MacMAME is rarely updated (if at all) and X-MAME is effectively dead.

[Haze]

I believe SDLMame is considered the main port on both those platforms now.

[Phil Lamat]

Vote is closed : 17-8 for requiring the use of a secure version (more than 2/3).
I gonna make another polls to determinate :
1- when secure version MUST be used
2- what secure version can be used

Personally, I was thinking that almost everyone would be in favour of using secure, as around 95% of submissions on Marp are using it now.
But 8 people are against : if it surprised me a little, personally I will try to respect their arguments for my next votes, keeping things as open as possible (secure version only for 1st place, and 35tg-alpha-wolf allowed)

Note that if a newbie or someone else takes 1st place without secure version, before deletion a link to his inp will be added as info in the desc box of the guy who is 1st, so that everybody can know what better score has been done and can download it.
The only point is that it won't count for leaderboard.