Allowing TG settings for MARP submissions in new TG era

[Zhorik]

MARP rule 2j states "Recording submissions must be recorded with that particular ROMset's defaults or TG (Twin Galaxies) settings. A recording set at easier or different settings is subject to deletion, especially if it is higher than others at more difficult settings. Recording on TG settings, which are the official arcade game settings, is preferred, and will gain your scores further notice from your fellow players."

The problem I see coming is that TG has recently started allowing players to create new tracks for different settings on the same game. Each of these tracks with different settings for the game are now considered official "TG settings". Technically Rule 2j would seem to allow players to use any of the various "TG settings" for a game they want when submitting to MARP.

I think it might be prudent to state that for games where TG settings have historically been submitted to MARP, that those settings can continue to be used at MARP, but that going forward players should use default settings or harder.

-George

[Phil Lamat]

Yes, maybe rules should be rewritten.
We should provide a list for "historical" TG settings somewhere, and for the rest only allow default settings.
Does soemeone have a list of old TG settings ?

[The TJT]

Does soemeone have a list of old TG settings ?

Hi guys,

At least Mark Longridge has his cubeman site still up with some seriously old TG settings.

http://www.cubeman.org/tgts.txt

[giro-X]

Yes, maybe rules should be rewritten.
We should provide a list for "historical" TG settings somewhere, and for the rest only allow default settings.

+1 here that agrees

[Barthax]

Twin Galaxies has definitely made a transition to permitting any settings by anyone so the change in rule makes sense for MARP.

[Mr. Kelly R. Flewin]

Twin Galaxies has definitely made a transition to permitting any settings by anyone so the change in rule makes sense for MARP.

I concur 100%. To that, I have been informed by numerous people that they are literally changing almost every games settings to be a lot more loose with what's allowed and to let people choose what they want. [This apparently is a huge thing with speedrunning games, as apparently this new regime is throwing out everything in favour of "However you do it, as long as you don't cheat."

Granted, I did slowly try to change speedrunning to more of where communities are now... but met up with an incredible amount of opposition before retiring....

But changing everything over for MAME stuff... just makes me wonder how long before they mess with everything Arcade related too... and blatantly ignore history and recognized settings.

THANKFULLY, I kept a copy of ALL my work, which included settings. So, enclosed, is the settings for 0.106 before I retired. Hopefully this will be of assistance in maintaining some history.


Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

[pat33999]

Twin Galaxies has definitely made a transition to permitting any settings by anyone so the change in rule makes sense for MARP.

I concur 100%. To that, I have been informed by numerous people that they are literally changing almost every games settings to be a lot more loose with what's allowed and to let people choose what they want. [This apparently is a huge thing with speedrunning games, as apparently this new regime is throwing out everything in favour of "However you do it, as long as you don't cheat."

Granted, I did slowly try to change speedrunning to more of where communities are now... but met up with an incredible amount of opposition before retiring....

But changing everything over for MAME stuff... just makes me wonder how long before they mess with everything Arcade related too... and blatantly ignore history and recognized settings.

THANKFULLY, I kept a copy of ALL my work, which included settings. So, enclosed, is the settings for 0.106 before I retired. Hopefully this will be of assistance in maintaining some history.


Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

I recommend you ignore these "numerous people" and keep up with what's happening at TG yourself, because they've been spreading misinformation.

The existing game tracks, regardless of platform, have not and will not be altered, in order to preserve history and keep all players on a level playing field within each individual track.

New tracks (either for existing games or untracked games) can be "purchased" (with submission points) by players, and these new tracks can have whatever rules the player wants. There's a voting system in place that determines how popular each track is, and the tracks for each game appear on the leaderboard in order of how popular they are.

Basically, the new TG has been built from the ground up with the idea that the gaming community comes first, and TG itself exists to serve this community. It's certainly a huge step up from any previous iteration of TG.

[Barthax]

Yes, TG has changed in a good direction: preserve history and permit movement forward to encompass all gamers' desires. Pat has good explanation & advice. It does mean that "TG settings" can become any option that any gamer wants but the historical variations remain as-is.

[dickmoreland]

I'd also like to point out that not once has anyone ever created a MAME track that uses easier than default settings. There are numerous examples of TG setting being more difficult than default and it's hard to figure out why so some people, myself included, have or will be setting up tracks that allow people to compete on default settings. This actually allows for MARP and TG scores to be on the same playing field. For example. Space Fury. There are some really nice scores on MARP but the scores at TG suck. This is because TG requires hard settings that make the game almost unplayable while the MARP scores are all done on default. If I set up a track at TG to allow people to play this game on default, then the scores at TG and MARP would be comparable. That seems like a good thing to me. I think George's idea is a good one but as long as people at TG aren't setting up tracks with easier than default settings, I don't see this as an issue.

[simpsons99]

I would say no because TG does not always use boot up settings for there games .. Like Intrepid they only take scores for 3 guys scores and not 5.. When Boot up settings are 5 guys ..

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

I agree with the changes that Zhorik and Phil Lamat said in the 1st and 2nd posts, as soon as possible.

[Cicca]

I also agree on rewriting that rule in order to consider TG settings as "historical"...I really hope this would be the only exception, as it's always been, to the standard MAME default settings....I personally wouldn't like to see different settings tracks pop up for each game here at MARP.....

[GJTMarper]

Well if we're going to do that Cicca, then we need to define what the "historical TG" settings for each game would be first, if they're not already the same as MAME defaults. Are we going to use the lists linked to in earlier posts to define what those "historical settings" would be?

[Phil Lamat]

An other example : "thief".
Default is bonus life = none.
TG has set Marathon Settings (TGMS) with bonus life = 10k and every 10k, much more easier (with that, 1M was reached on Marp)
From Kelly R Flewin's file :

Thief [Points, Marathon Settings]
ROMSet: Thief
Lives: 3
Unused: No [All]
Cabinet: upright
Difficulty: Normal
Bonus lives: 10K 10K
Special Rules: None

Thief [Points, Tournament Settings]
ROMSet: Thief
Lives: 3
Unused: No [All]
Cabinet: upright
Difficulty: Normal
Bonus lives: None
Special Rules: None


Maybe Pat could create an archive *thief-tg, so that we can move Rick Carter's inputs there (and some other players too, according to some descriptions)

Rule 2j must be rewritten though.

[***PL***]

MARP Rule 2j simply needs clarification. The intent of the rule was for a gamer to choose between default settings or standard TG settings. In the case where there are both TGTS and TGMS, we shall follow TGTS because the expectation is that those settings are harder than TGMS and that the gameplay won't last as long.

MARP is not a site where there will exist separate splits just for marathon settings. Gamers can go elsewhere to submit INPs for those kind of tracks.

In the case of thief, I will follow rule 2j, so the top score will be disqualified and zeroed out as well as any others brought to my attention.