AlphaMame Blocking Bonus

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

Moderator: BBH

AlphaMame Blocking Bonus

Poll ended at Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:57 am

[For Blocking] <br>Block regular dos and windows mame recordings from beating alphamame recordings. All recordings prior to date of begining of the vote (3-3-2003) will be grandfathered to be "ok" to remain beating alphamame recordings.
24
80%
[Nay Blocking] <br> Leave it the way it is, all recordings can beat any others, even when regular mame can use cheating that is not detectable. But Allow for a tgmame leaderboard bonus to be decided later.
6
20%
 
Total votes : 30

AlphaMame Blocking Bonus

Postby Chad » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:57 am

In order to promote Alphamame and make it even more valuable to the community [And to recognize the willingness for players to play on a fair level], the editors have decided to bonus alphamame submisions.

The vote is here because everyone should have a say in how it is to be done. For now, we can't think of a precise way to award more bonus leaderboard points to different mame versions, because the math just gets too complicated. But it is possible (and most importantly easy for zwaxy) to give alphamame recordings a stronger stature and to award a player for using a mame that is impossible to cheat with the currently known cheating methods (slowdowns, rerecording, pausing).

If this rule passes by 2/3rds of the voters, any Alphamame recording (61 and higher), can ONLY be beaten at marp with another Alphamame recording. In other words, when someone uses regular (insecure) mame to get a higher score than alphamame recording's score and uploads that score after 3-3-2003, it will not be allowed at submit time. A few exeptions: xmame/macmame recordings would still be allowed to beat alphamame recordings because there is no alphamame for these platforms yet. When AlphaXmame and alphaMacMame come out, they will also block regular xmame and macmame recordings when submited.

Passing this vote will NOT force newbies to use alphamame. But if newbies want to beat alphamame scores already submited by veterans (who already know alphamame is a way to put the most pride into recordings), the newbies will have to learn and use it.

So go n' vote.
-skito
User avatar
Chad
Tournament Coordinator
 
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:15 pm
Location: calif

Postby zlk » Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:08 pm

If this vote is passed, is there anyway BR could code an alphamame for version 36 or maybe some other older versions? I ask this because some games like hangon don't work properly in the later versions but work fine in 36. Smashtv also won't record with sound in the newer versions but works fine with sound in 36. There are numerous other examples of games that work better in older versions of mame. I would hate to have to start playing certain games with -nosound just to submit inps to marp.
zlk
MARPaltunnel Wrists
MARPaltunnel Wrists
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 11:41 pm

Re: AlphaMame Blocking Bonus

Postby LN2 » Mon Mar 03, 2003 4:27 pm

Chad wrote:A few exeptions: xmame/macmame recordings would still be allowed to beat alphamame recordings because there is no alphamame for these platforms yet. When AlphaXmame and alphaMacMame come out, they will also block regular xmame and macmame recordings when submited.

Ok, thx for realizing that. I gasped when I read what the poll was at first....cuz that would have meant the end of MARP for me..until I saw this exception. However, one angle to consider is those on PCs that run Windows but also have Linux installed and want to actually cheat by fudging inp recordings etc. to get high scores or pause or change controller options during the game would just play using xmame instead and still do all of that. Given they go to such trouble to hack up an inp file it's not that much trouble for them to play in xmame instead.

On another note, I think this will only work if the mame version list in the submit page is changed so it includes more than just that one mac version of mac36. As you have seen with my submissions macmame60 is current and if i know the inp is cross-platform compatible I select mame60 from that menu so confirmers that like confirming with that version will see it and confirm it. I still include macmame60 in the description though.

If this above was passed, I could still note the inp is cross-platform compatible but would like to be able to select mac60. To select mac36 is deceiving. We also would need other versions like mac58 noted cuz there are a handful of games like Karnov that play fine in 58 but don't in 60.

Version 65 is being worked on but hard to say when the person that develops macmame will complete that....could be weeks...or months...or never if he loses interest.
LN2
MARPaholic
MARPaholic
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:46 pm

Postby Barthax » Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:31 pm

Without writting it out, I would like to echo LN2's words. I don't have access to (a stable) Windows at work (where I do get some time to play). I'd hate to get a difficult high score there & then have to come home & replay the whole just to upload without penalties.

Roll on AlphaXMAME / AlphaMacMAME! Though I realise that AlphaXMAME will be a real pain to get to work as distribution compatible, let alone GLIBC version compatible!
User avatar
Barthax
MARP Seer
MARP Seer
 
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:13 pm

Postby mahlemiut » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:57 pm

An X11 version would certainly be possible for me to do, although at the moment, it would be binary only, so compatibility would be limited to 80x86 systems, and maybe only certain distros too. Producing a library is certainly a possibility, like what I did for Skito and Ben Jos. This would then give compatibility to Unix/Linux/MacOS X. At least when XMAME fixes INP recording and playback, that is. :)
- Barry Rodewald
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
Image
User avatar
mahlemiut
Editor
 
Posts: 4078
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:05 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby Chad » Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:03 pm

If you compile it with -static, xmame.x11 will work anywhere with X (maybe with the exception of macosx :). although not with any hardware dependent makefile switches flipped. A true alphaMacmame is the problem since we have no major mac developers in the editor realm. But your macmame build dude is welomce to include the public alphamame source features, writes his own encryption and if we can't hack it, we'll accept it as a secure mame here at this level.

It's more likely we'll see an alphaXmame66 more than we'll see a alphamame36 but it's all up to barry. So i think recording with out sound might be the only thing to do, but mame usually gets fixed so be patient and record when new mame's working right.
-skito
User avatar
Chad
Tournament Coordinator
 
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:15 pm
Location: calif

Postby Chad » Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:07 am

oh yeah the motorolla thing :) i guess there's always the cross compiling nightmare. and NO distributing the library won't be possible. me and ben jos got the decrypting libraries (to create the inp analyzing tools) which is ok to distribute. But the encryption library (required to build an alpha mame) wouldn't be ok to distribute. Because then anyone could encrypt regular mame inps into alphamame inps.

However, the interface to the encryption library would be able to be distributed so you could release the bare alphamame source (with a call/ref to the encryption/decryption routines to be linked securly) and then the mac devs could write their own encryption/decryption routines and link with alphamame source.
-skito
User avatar
Chad
Tournament Coordinator
 
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:15 pm
Location: calif

Before voting...

Postby Luja » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:22 am

I want to known some things.

* I think that the win version of alphamame, like Mame32, uses the registry to store his information. So, this will be make troubles?
I say troubles about installing more than one win version in the computer.
For example, I want to keep in my computer Mame32 and Alphamame32 (if exist).

* Has alphamame32 the same features of Mame32?

* Will be troubles if I install in my computer alphamamew (the windows version withouth the gui) and mame32?

* Which versions of alphamame exists? Where can i download them? I follow the links of versions but the existing ones are old!!!

* How much time frequenly differs between the release of the standards mame, mamew and the alphamame versions? I say this, because the games added to a new version of mame, in this period can be submitted with great scores (because there aren´t alphamame recordings yet) or with cheats in them...

Regards
User avatar
Luja
MARP Serf
MARP Serf
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Bilbao, Basque Country

Re: Before voting...

Postby mahlemiut » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:06 am

Luja wrote:I want to known some things.

* I think that the win version of alphamame, like Mame32, uses the registry to store his information. So, this will be make troubles?
I say troubles about installing more than one win version in the computer.
For example, I want to keep in my computer Mame32 and Alphamame32 (if exist).

* Has alphamame32 the same features of Mame32?

Yes. AlphaMAME32 works the same as MAME32, with the extra features of the other AlphaMAME versions too. Each verison is based on the official source releases of each version.

Luja wrote:* Will be troubles if I install in my computer alphamamew (the windows version withouth the gui) and mame32?

Shouldn't be.

Luja wrote:* Which versions of alphamame exists? Where can i download them? I follow the links of versions but the existing ones are old!!!

Each version I release is posted in the General forum. Latest is 0.65.1.

Luja wrote:* How much time frequenly differs between the release of the standards mame, mamew and the alphamame versions? I say this, because the games added to a new version of mame, in this period can be submitted with great scores (because there aren´t alphamame recordings yet) or with cheats in them...

Hopefully no more than a week. Depends on time. Weekends are usually best for me.
- Barry Rodewald
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
Image
User avatar
mahlemiut
Editor
 
Posts: 4078
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:05 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby Phil Lamat » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:33 am

You should add links for alphamametg in the "old versions" of the upperbanner's menu

I vote yes, even if I'm afraid I won't be able to play without pause after the birth of my twins in 2 months (in fact I'm afraid not to be able to play anymore..:)
User avatar
Phil Lamat
Regulation Coordinator
 
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:19 am

Postby LN2 » Tue Mar 04, 2003 5:21 am

good luck with the twins. Yeah I think the small amount of "free time" you will have the first 6 months at least will be sleeping!!!

After that you might have a little time to play now and then.
LN2
MARPaholic
MARPaholic
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:46 pm

Last question (mahlemiut...)

Postby Luja » Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:43 am

I'm almost sure to vote yes (although the pause problem mentions by Phil Lamat).

Do alphamame32 use the same registry keys than mame32?
It will be perfect to use another (for example in Software....freeware\aplhamame32 intead Software....freeware\mame32), so I can keep the two versions (one for mame32 and another for alphamame32, using the same rom,dat... files)

I believe that the secret feature that is improving mame32 team is "not using the registry for saving configuration"....

Thx for your quick replies.
User avatar
Luja
MARP Serf
MARP Serf
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Bilbao, Basque Country

Re: Last question (mahlemiut...)

Postby mahlemiut » Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:43 am

Luja wrote:Do alphamame32 use the same registry keys than mame32?
It will be perfect to use another (for example in Software....freeware\aplhamame32 intead Software....freeware\mame32), so I can keep the two versions (one for mame32 and another for alphamame32, using the same rom,dat... files)


I don't change anything related to it, so I'd figure it would use the same registry keys as regular MAME32.
- Barry Rodewald
MARP Assistant Web Maintainer
Image
User avatar
mahlemiut
Editor
 
Posts: 4078
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:05 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby Luja » Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:19 am

The "tab" key, the "pause" key, "save states" and the other features are disabled in "all type of games" or only when recording a game (making an inp file)?
User avatar
Luja
MARP Serf
MARP Serf
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Bilbao, Basque Country

Postby piot » Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:53 am

Luja wrote:The "tab" key [snip] are disabled in "all type of games" or only when recording a game (making an inp file)?


Tab key is not disabled right now during the game. There's a thread in "general" discussing the subject.
Piot
User avatar
piot
Button Masher
Button Masher
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Paris (France)

Next

Return to Regulation Play

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron