Changes in difficulty between versions.

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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Abbe
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Changes in difficulty between versions.

Post by Abbe »

Being the puzzleman I am, I thought I would give Palamedes (Japan) a go. I was sad to discover that I wasn't anywhere near the better scores at MARP.

What I discovered was that Palamedes is much harder since 0.37b6. Before that the game is slower and the opponents in tournament mode are playing like blind cows. I can finish the game in tournament mode without much effort before b6, after that I have trouble winning the second round. All scores, except for Aaron Pieper's, at MARP is made with 0.37b5 or earlier versions.

This problem, that the difficulty changes between versions, does occur in several games. Is there a policy how to handle it at MARP? I know the case with changes to dip switch settings has been discussed, but it is not applicable here. The default dip switch settings are the same, but the game is harder.
-Abbe
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Post by LN2 »

I have seen this with a couple of the matching tiles games...where the timer/ticker ticks down so fast in modern versions of mame it seems impossible to get beyond the first couple of stages.

I would need to see exactly which rom set it was but one of them starting round 2 I could select tiles as fast as my key presses would allow me and even then _barely_ complete the round in the time allowed. There is almost no time to think. If I have to stop more than 4-5 seconds between keypresses for the entire round then I run out of time. For round 3 I had no chance of possiblity completing it cuz the timer ticks down in about 10-15 seconds. You have to select each pair of tiles in less than 2 seconds or you even lose time in actually selecting them. No way the timer should be going that quickly.

personally I think with any game that is better emulated in later versions of mame that result in lower potential scores, a certain version or later should be required...and all scores played with earlier versions zeroed out. I think this would likely only affect 10 or so games...but who knows.
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The TJT
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Post by The TJT »

Unfortunately there is no policy,, except easiest beta rules. Paperboy, puzle de pon etc. Only policy is common sense, but if that is lacked then only vote.

Have to think this again, when sober :P :twisted: :wink:
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Post by Abbe »

The TJT wrote:Unfortunately there is no policy,, except easiest beta rules.
Since easiest beta rules I have now submitted a score for tournament mode made with Mame32 0.37b5.
The THT wrote:Paperboy, puzle de pon etc. Only policy is common sense, but if that is lacked then only vote.
Maybe I should start a poll, while still having the right to. :twisted:
-Abbe
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Francois Daniel
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Post by Francois Daniel »

LN2 wrote:personally I think with any game that is better emulated in later versions of mame that result in lower potential scores, a certain version or later should be required...and all scores played with earlier versions zeroed out. I think this would likely only affect 10 or so games...but who knows.
For varoius reasons I see this problem on many games on mame. And they'ra games who are easier with lasts versions (Twin Eagle).

I think the only possibility is to have the real arcade factory settings for each game but its very very difficult to have them

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Post by LN2 »

well, I wasn't actually talking game settings above. I am talking about a change in how the game is emulated in mame.

For the most part currently you can play the game in any version of mame you want...that supports the game and supports recording.

Game dip switch settings are another issue also. That can easily be handled with "special rules" that just note what dip switch settings should be used...if the default settings vary between different mame versions....which I have seen for example with swimmer.

Version 0.58(or was it 0.53..hehe) and earlier have easier settings for 1 or 2 rom sets of that game versus version 0.60 and later. I'm sure there are a lot more games with the dip switch/settings issues.

These are a pain to discover and work out though...so I figure over time slowly but surely all of them will be figured out and special rules setup for it.
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Post by Buttermaker »

In the case of Palamedes pre-37b6 scores should get zeroed and those old versions not be allowed for recording.
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Post by DeSangre »

Buttermaker wrote:In the case of Palamedes pre-37b6 scores should get zeroed and those old versions not be allowed for recording.
I second Buttermaker's and Abbe comments. I'd vote for newer (harder) versions any day. Harder would mean best inps are shorter and the score attack would be less based on endurance and more on skill, and that's what MARP is about. Or so I think/hope :wink:
We should ask Sportdude what his best score is with wolfmame 07X :)
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Post by LordGaz »

DeSangre wrote:
Buttermaker wrote:In the case of Palamedes pre-37b6 scores should get zeroed and those old versions not be allowed for recording.
I second Buttermaker's and Abbe comments. I'd vote for newer (harder) versions any day. Harder would mean best inps are shorter and the score attack would be less based on endurance and more on skill, and that's what MARP is about. Or so I think/hope :wink:
We should ask Sportdude what his best score is with wolfmame 07X :)
Yes this seems the way to go for games where the default settings get harder but it's quite a delicate issue. Existing high score holders like SportsDude should first be contacted so they can perhaps have a say in the matter and be given the opportunity to compete at the new settings.

Gaz
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Post by LordGaz »

DeSangre wrote:
Buttermaker wrote:In the case of Palamedes pre-37b6 scores should get zeroed and those old versions not be allowed for recording.
I second Buttermaker's and Abbe comments. I'd vote for newer (harder) versions any day. Harder would mean best inps are shorter and the score attack would be less based on endurance and more on skill, and that's what MARP is about. Or so I think/hope :wink:
We should ask Sportdude what his best score is with wolfmame 07X :)
Yes this seems the way to go for games where the default settings get harder but it's quite a delicate issue. Existing high score holders like SportsDude should first be contacted so they can perhaps have a say in the matter and be given the opportunity to compete at the new settings.

Gaz
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Post by LordGaz »

DeSangre wrote:
Buttermaker wrote:In the case of Palamedes pre-37b6 scores should get zeroed and those old versions not be allowed for recording.
I second Buttermaker's and Abbe comments. I'd vote for newer (harder) versions any day. Harder would mean best inps are shorter and the score attack would be less based on endurance and more on skill, and that's what MARP is about. Or so I think/hope :wink:
We should ask Sportdude what his best score is with wolfmame 07X :)
Yes this seems the way to go for games where the default settings get harder but it's quite a delicate issue. Existing high score holders like SportsDude should first be contacted so they can perhaps have a say in the matter and be given the opportunity to compete at the new settings.

Gaz
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