kidniki (and clones)

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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kidniki (and clones)

Post by destructor » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:07 am

What we can do with leeching on stage 2 in Kid Niki - Radical Ninja?

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999
kidnikiu:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/f/0/d/dt ... mame70.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/9/6/cj ... olf103.zip
lithero:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/b/8/bs ... lf93u1.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/a/d/2/cj ... lf93u1.zip
yanchamr:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/6/a/1/dt ... mame70.zip

Stage 2 is very simple (I tried it one momento ago).
My proposition is:
1. Finish 2nd (second) stage with 1 life. If you lose life on stage 2 your game is over.
2. Finish 2nd (second) stage with no more than 2 lives. If you lose 2 lives on stage 2 then your game is over.

I personally think that option 1 is the best. If we choose option 2 99,9%(or 100%) of players will use first life for leeching only.

(edit: added ace13 kidnikiu 423200 above -TJT)

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Post by zlk » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:48 pm

I do not see why there needs to be a special rule for this game. You cannot leech indefinitely, so players would have to leech all their extra men and then finish the game with their last man.

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Post by mahlemiut » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:14 am

zlk wrote:I do not see why there needs to be a special rule for this game. You cannot leech indefinitely, so players would have to leech all their extra men and then finish the game with their last man.
So we don't fall asleep while watching or making the inp? :)

Besides, I thought we had already banned the technique, or at least discussed it before.
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Post by The TJT » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:36 am

mahlemiut wrote: Besides, I thought we had already banned the technique, or at least discussed it before.
You have good memory.
viewtopic.php?t=5179&highlight=niki

Clearly, this stage 2 sweetspot leech is against marp leeching rules. I see we have 2 options to choose from:

A. Finish 2nd (second) stage with 1 life. If you lose a life on stage 2 your game is over. (Des's suggestion 1)

B. No leeching at all at stage 2 sweetspot
---------
B would be most fair to players who have not leeched at all, yet it's subjective to decide when a player is leeching or not. Maybe a rule such as "You can kill! only one group of birds at low platform" would be good?
...Marper "Aklys" has nearly finished the game, so it would not be very fair to beat hes score when leeching some at stage 2 and gameovering at early stages.

-What makes kid Niki a "radical ninja"? ...We need more conservative ninjas. :)

-I was buying a sword(yes really)at Chiang Mai. A Thai guy asked me "Are you a ninja?" -I answered "Yes, I need this for my work" with dead serious face...Thai guy just walked away, shopkeeper grinned.

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Post by destructor » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:03 am

zlk wrote:I do not see why there needs to be a special rule for this game. You cannot leech indefinitely, so players would have to leech all their extra men and then finish the game with their last man.
You are wrong. I check it when I record my first inp with leeching. (I can finish this game with one life, no problem). Why I record with leeching? Because when you lost all lives on leeching you will have MORE points than you finish game with last life after leeching.

I vote for A option.
A. Finish 2nd (second) stage with 1 life. If you lose a life on stage 2 your game is over.
B option isn't clarity.

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Post by NotMan » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:11 pm

I don't think that game is leeching w/o getting any more extra men like gng. I think you (Des) were doing is called points maxmium not leeching. Try to max out many points with one life until your last life.

So, I don't know how the voting should be done. I think A. should be optional, but there will be more recordings similar like that then there will be more complaints how the scoring system should work. IMHO :wink:

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Post by The TJT » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:54 pm

I think it's best to try limit leeching, as we usually have done at Marp.
So I'd say we will have either A or B for special rules...

I'll wait for couple days if there will be more votes for A or B, and edit rules accordingly.
(Currently A has fair lead with 1-0)

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kid niki leeching?

Post by Ace13 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:28 pm

I agree with Des.
No deaths allowed on level two sounds good to me.

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Post by The TJT » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:11 pm

Hi,
Edited special rules for kidnikiu,yanchamr and lithero according to option A.
Also asked an editor to zero scores opposite to new rules.

Thank you.

p.s. kidniki => kidnikiu

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Post by destructor » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:16 am

I deleted my scores.

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Post by destructor » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:46 pm

This isn't end problems with kidniki leeching.

Attachment inp was recorded in wolf103. I show leeching on stage 5. This leeching I can do on stage 7 too. Score for 1 life this method is about 105000. I don't have idea what we can do with it. Maybe bonus for finish game? Or maybe: when you lost life next you start game with new life from some point, this point can't be before place where you can leech (this poin must be after place where leechin is possible).
Attachments
kidniki_leeching.zip
(22.96 KiB) Downloaded 171 times

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Post by The TJT » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:52 pm

Watched few CURRENT top inps, ALL leech at stage 2, great:

Kidnikiu:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/6/1/0/ak ... mame61.zip
-leech stage2 finish same man, leech stage 5

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/f/2/1/bs ... n37b14.zip
-leech stage2, finish same man

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/e/6/e/te ... mame56.zip
-leech stage 2, finish same man i think

Lithero:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/4/7/e/cj ... olf103.zip
-leech stage2, finish same man

yanchamr:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/e/7/a/ak ... mame61.zip
-leech stage2, dies, continues leeching

It seems pretty hard to find a meaningful scoring, here are some thoughts. This is not vote. This is conversation.

1. leech as much as you want
(boring watch/play, nobody finishes the game)
2. leech as much as you want, add finishing bonus
(boring watch/play, too much leeching)
3. leech at stage 2 and finish it with same man, NO leeching at other stages.
4. Time trial: stages bonus-frames played
5. No leeching at all.
(...So probably all current scores would get zeroed)

I thought 3 would be best. Although I do admit it's not logical to allow stage 2 leeching and no others. Atleast we would not have to zero/recount ALL scores.

Your thoughts? Anything against 3, or do you have better ideas?

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Post by Phil Lamat » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:18 am

Maybe bonus for a finished game based on lifes lost or lifes remaining ?

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Post by mahlemiut » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:02 am

No excessive (more than one life) leeching or a 5 life limit (if possible) suits me fine.
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Post by destructor » Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:44 pm

Phil Lamat wrote:Maybe bonus for a finished game based on lifes lost or lifes remaining ?
TJT wrote:2. leech as much as you want, add finishing bonus
(boring watch/play, too much leeching)
Leech as much you want, add bonus for a finished game based on lives remaining.
bonus = 1mln points for 1 life.

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